Double_Barrel Senior Member Joined: 18 Nov 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Wenatchee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri May 1, 2009, 3:42pm Subject: The Siren Song of Espresso...
It started about ten years ago, not a big deal, just one of those little cheapie Krups "Espresso" machines. You've seen them, perhaps you still have one, back in the pantry, in a corner. I was pretty happy with my "lattes". I'd even buy special Expresso beans (I didn't know how to even spell Espresso back then). OK, so they lasted for a year in the fridge, I was happy then. I had a special grinder too, a Krups blade grinder, life was good.
On weekends I'd make my wife and I a special Latte, I was pretty proud, she thought I was a hero, life was good. Then the little Krups machine blew a gasket, no big deal, it's probably time to "upgrade" anyhow, I thought. I HATE the word upgrade now, but my therapist and I are making progress.
I went to Bed, Bath and Beyond and bought a Breville Cafe Modena Espresso Machine. "Ouch, $200.00. "Well, it's worth it to get good Espresso" ( I found out that there's no "X" in Espresso).
I took it home and started the learning curve. Also, I started to read this forum. So every one of you has to take some responsibility for what followed. "Blade Grinders Suck" I read.... hmmmmm... Thermoblocks suck, Brevelle suck.... I started to read other forums, and I became less and less satisfied with my lattes and Expressos. I started to shop for "fresh" store bought beans... After two weeks of reading, and getting more and more frustrated I took the Breville back, and ordered a Saeco Aroma, and a Barasta Maestro Plus burr grinder from Lotta Love Lattes. Ouch, $350.00 for the Saeco, and $150.00 for the grinder. YIKES, almost $600.00 when I added a frothing pitcher and a tamper. But it will be worth it to have the "best" lattes and espressos, right?
Two lattes every morning, life is good, kinda.... Then... the Saeco starts to leak from the steam wand, and then it leaks from the group head, not a lot, just enough to be annoying. Plus it runs out of steam when I'm frothing milk. My wife comments that shes noticed a "bitter" taste to the coffee. And she's right. So, I start to read about timing shots, tamping pressure, buying only freshly roasted beans, non-pressurized portafilters, etc. etc. etc. Life's not so good...
Grind, tamp, pull, time, taste, dump. Again.... and again, and again.... I have a non-pressurized portafilter now, fresh beans, the "better" Maestro Plus grinder... we're making progress. Blonding, channeling, over extraction, under extraction... blah, blah, blah.... I'm on a quest now, pity the poor soul that innocently asks me about making Espressos.
I start looking online for a better machine... my wife watches TV, I'm reading Esprsso forums on the laptop. Semi-Auto machines, Automatic machines, lever machines... now I'm dreaming about Espresso machines and the perfect shot...
I have a Rancilio Silvia on order now, just got the tracking number. Stopped by Lowes today and purchased an appliance timer so that the new Silvia can pre-heat and be ready for the 0600 event every morning. Stopped at the local Coffee Shop and spent $14.00 for a bag of beans that were roasted today.
I've been on Craigs List looking for a better grinder, I'm hoping that my Maestro Plus will suffice, but I know that I'm delusional, I know that eventually I'll be looking at a Rocky, or ??? I'll be reading posts on this forum and I'll start thinking, "You know, a PID might be something to consider".
And so, like you, I hear the siren song of Espresso, and I should have tied myself to the mast as the ship sailed past the rocks, but it's too late now. And each and every one of you are a part of this malady...
wideasleep1 Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: Sausalito,Ca Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo Grinder: Mahlkoenig K30 Vario Vac Pot: nope Drip: Bodum Press Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Fri May 1, 2009, 4:11pm Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
Welcome to the asylum! :D Your fun is only just beginning...and while I won't feel sorry for the MUCH better coffee/espresso you'll be drinking, I will feel sorry for your wallet. Take joy in knowing the dollars you do spend pay back many times over. In hindsight, few things in life have warranted their cost, but I have never regretted spending money on coffee gear and related material. Have you considered home roasting? ;)
atomichumbucker Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Posts: 277 Location: Stony Brook Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Le'Lit pl041 Grinder: Ascaso I-1D Vac Pot: no, Bodum PRESS pot Drip: Bunn VP17-1
Posted Fri May 1, 2009, 4:11pm Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA so true.
I moved on from my krups steam to a krups xp about a year and a half ago, since then I learned a lot about espresso, and also developed a taste that my wallet cannot match.
swapped the steam wand for a custom machined acorn setup to replace the "perfect froth," attachment that apparently wasn't perfect enough.
non pressurized baskets, because I cant have that "fake," crema. A new tamp, and of course a new grinder.
though I must say, that now that I have a good technique down, a pretty nice grinder, Im pulling shots that for the most part out perform anything I have had at any S'bucks, and many local coffee shops.
the hobby is expensive, and sometimes frustrating, but when progress is made in the right direction, it is soooooo worth it. theres nothing like watching the perfectly striped drops flow like syrup..... except the taste of course lol
ow im saving for an HX machine, and possibly a roasting set up.
-behind every great achievement is an even greater pot of coffee.
Posted Fri May 1, 2009, 4:20pm Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
Great first post!
I feel your addiction, except mine is at a much faster rate.
I didn't like the taste of coffee growing up, but I did like the smell. I thought it tasted horrible until I "made" myself like coffee about 5-6 years ago. I started on the god-awful Starbucks drinks because they didn't have a lot of "coffee" taste. I then had a crappy black and decker pod machine at home and drowned out the horrible taste with some hazelnut syrup.
One day I was shopping with my girlfriend (now wife) at Kohl's and saw a Keurig. I thought it was a pretty neat concept and threw it on my CC. I was very happy for about three years. I would use one cup to fill up my 16 oz travel mug! Yuck!!
Sometime last year I started to show interest in a French Press and had my first great tasting cup of coffee at a small place in MN called Coffee & Tea ltd, located in Sears at the Mall of America. They ground the coffee fresh to order and used a pour over method, this was my first time seeing this.
I received a FP for Christmas this last year and that's when the addiction started. I originally was using it with a whirly-blade grinder. Then I did some research and discovered I needed a conical burr grinder. I ordered the Capresso Infinity from Amazon and was very excited, and ended up returning it twice, haha. The first one had a lot of problems when adjusting to a finer grind, the next one just sucked. It produced way too many fines. I think it was around this time that I stumbled upon coffeegeek. I decided to buy a refurbished Baratza Virtuoso and am still happy with it.
I trolled the coffee section like it was a drug. I quickly went out and bought an electric kettle then ordered a Yama 5 cup vacpot with cory rod shortly after. I never even looked in the Espresso section, I wasn't ready to go there...boy was I wrong!
A friend of mine mentioned that Starbucks was selling a machine similar to the Saeco Aroma for a good price. I just stopped to take a look and ended up taking it home. Well, then I started researching like a mad man and wasn't satisfied with my purchase. Needless to say I have now sold my Via Venezia to my friend and have a new Silvia in the mail as I type. I also just recieved my zass hand grinder from OrphanEspresso today.
We are still using the Keurig with the "my k-cup" adapter so that the fresh coffee can be used. It makes a better than average cup but I'm no longer satisfied. After a few weeks of searching ebay I finally won a new Melitta BCM-4C drip pot that should be here tomorrow. The Keurig will then go back to it's box in the shed. I do owe a lot to the Keurig, it's what truly got me interested in pretty good coffee.
Oh, I almost forgot.....I also got into home roasting in this short amount of time. I have a Fresh Roast and every Wed. and Sat. are my roasting days. I love it! I turn on Pandora on my home stereo and start roasting, almost a zen like experience.
Anyways, this is my story on how I got sucked into the coffee/espresso world, and to think I couldn't stand the taste of this fine beverage. The real problem was that I never had tasted a "real" cup of coffee until that fine day at Sears, of all places.
I'm afraid to see where this takes me. I'm only 24 years old, still in school, and recently married. I can only imagine how far this addiction will take me.
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,695 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat May 2, 2009, 9:35am Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
Let's see . . . how fast can one plunge into the depths of Espresso Hell (or soar into the heights of Espresso heaven)?
Back in the 1950s, my father ground his own beans and brewed his coffee using a Chemex -- much different from (and better than) the "Maxwell House-and-percolator" setup common throughout most of the US at the time . . . so I had a reasonably good start.
When I moved away to go to college, I discovered cappuccinos -- not a latte, not (yet) an espresso, I was a confirmed cappuccino consumer -- and in 1976, I bought my first espresso machine: a La Pavoni Euriopicola EPC-8 (back then, it cost me $299). Little did I know (indeed, I truly did know nothing) that a lever machine was not the best idea for a) my first machine, or b) for crowds. Neither did I know that my little Krups blade grinder wouldn't work very well -- but this was 1976, no one knew from "Mazzer" or "Macap," and if I choked the machine sometimes, and at other times, it gushed like Niagra Falls -- hey! it was operator error, right?
OK, 2-3 years later, I gave my Pavoni away and got a Gaggia Coffee (also $299 at the time I bought it) and a Gaggia MDF ($199, IIRC), and for more than 25 years I was a happy camper when it came to my shots . . .
Then I discovered this place (and HB) in December 2005, and ever since, I've been moving at warp speed:
Got an "early" ________ machine from 1st-Line, and a Mazzer Mini; grinder worked perfect, but the machine was damaged in transit and returned.
Got a second "early" _______ machine; it arrived DOA, and was returned. (Jim @ 1st-Line was great, and worked with the manufacturer to improve packaging, etc.)
Got a third machine from 1st-Line, this time an Ala di Vittoria La Valentina (also sold under several other names). Paired with my Mazzer Mini, I'm a happy camper once again!
Moved my Gaggia setup to my office.
Figured I needed a second grinder at home for decaf -- got a (now discontinued) Quick Mill Stepless/Doserless grinder from Chris' Coffee Service.
Acquired a used (built in 1989) Olympia Caffarex for the office through eBay.
Bought a Nuova Simonelli MCF grinder from 1st-Line for the office -- gave the Gaggia setup to my brother-in-law.
Figured I should upgrade from the Mazzer Mini, and purchased a Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder from Chris' Coffee Service for home use.
Acquired an Arrarex Caravel -- a rare 110v model -- from a private individual. Took that to the office.
With my upgraded grinder, I thought I should upgrade my machine, too -- stuck with volumetric dosing, but ditched the pourover: got an Elektra Sixties Model T1 from Chris' Coffee Service before the $1K+ price hike! Moved La Valentina into the basement, pending a decision of what to do with her.
With my upgraded machine, I decided to upgrade my home grinder again, buying a Mahlkönig K30 Vario direct from Mahlkönig USA, and moved the Cimbali Max Hybrid to the office.
In my office, I now have three espresso machines (the Arrarex, Olympia and La Val), and two grinders (Cimbali Max Hybrid and the NS MCF). At home is the Elektra T1, the Mahlkönig, and the Quick Mill (that I want to replace -- probably with the Baratza Vario). And all this has taken less than three-and-a-half years!
Posted Sat May 2, 2009, 11:37am Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
seems we ALL hear the Siren Song one time or another.. Lets see here..
Christmas Eve 08'- I see a Good Eats episode on espresso, and think, maybe I wanna try home espresso...
Few day later- Ask parents if we have an espresso machine, and find a late 1970's model benjamin&medwin steam driven machine, tho not the stove top model, an electric model.
December 31'st-surfin the web waitin for the ball to drop, I find coffeegeek, a place to help me better use my B&M machine.
A week or two later-Realize my setup is absolute crap, even worse the grinder, I pick up a barely used Delonghi EC140b machine, knowing it wont suffice, thought surely better then the steam toy. Also begin to roast my own coffee, using a HG/DB setup, buying from Sweet Marias.. NOW we're talkin!
Another week goes by- Pick up a PeDe hand grinder from Orphan espresso, and quickly become frustrated with the machine.. Modify the PF to bottomless, leanr how to temp surf the boiler for both brewing and steaming.
Early february now- HAting the delonghi machine, expected, and right on schedule. Begin to shop and decide between a Silvia, or a Gaggia Classic. Oh wait..probably need a grinder to really do the new machine justice.
Late february- Learn that for what Im looking for, Ill need to spend a lot more then a gaggia baby and a lelitpl53.. So lets find out just how much.
Begining of March- Ask the experts which HX machine will be right for me. All the while thinking Ill use the PeDe grinder. Soon realize Ill need a grinder just as good as the machine, if I want to get the best it offers..
End of MArch- Make a joint purchase of a Quickmill Anita machine, and a MAzzer MAjor grinder. Soon after, purchase the neccesary accesories, like a good scale, a nicer tamper, a knockbox, some cups.. All the while, still roasting my own coffee.
April- Happy as ever with my current setup, but growing frustrated with my espresso roasts. Decide a break from roasting is in order, and that a Hottop needs to be in my sights. Currently still roasting SO espresso, but almost completly ordering from the pros for espresso. Still roasting for presspot 100%.
End of april/Present-Want to add another grinder to the setup, a large conical probably, and definatly needing a proper roaster. Still VERY happy with my current setup..though my eyes do wander to the LM site sometime...
So lets see.. I started in late December with a 1970ish steam toy, and just a few short months later Ive got some commercial gear in the house, soon to be supplemented with a second grinder, and a roaster.
Gotta love the bug.
P.S.- the actual dates might be a little off, but u get the idea.. crapola to commercial in roughly 3 months. :)
...Follow Your Bliss... ....And grind finer, tamp lighter....
In the last 6 years of selling Mazzers, we have only experienced one defective grinder.-Jim Piccinich 1st-line Equipment, a Home-Barista Forum Post
Posted Sat May 2, 2009, 1:29pm Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
It's a very slippery slope, less than a year ago I had a Cuisinart drip machine, a Krups steam toy and an Infinity and I thought I was doing pretty well. My drip coffee was better than any of my friend's or family's coffee (but not as good as what a couple places around here serve) and my milk drinks (no shots yet) tasted almost as good as what I could get when I went out (but nowhere near what I'd had in Italy). Near the end of June last year my drip machine quit on me, I'd been spending $100-150 every 2-3 years and decided I wanted to make an improvement in both my coffee (why couldn't it be as good as my favorite breakfast place's coffee?) and the lifespan of the machine. I went to a few local places and most of what they had were mostly plastic and not very well put together, even the $200 models seemed flimsy. I started to do some research on the net and was thinking of ordering a Capresso (my parents are happy with their coffee tec) but my wife didn't see the point of spending that much on another machine that would probably quit in a year or 2 again, and she wanted something NOW so I needed to find something locally. The only thing I found locally that got OK reviews was my Saeco (it's been better than any of the Krups, Kitchenaid, Cuisinart machines but it's not exactly a Technovorm either). That same day I found CG and found out that the expensive beans I'd been getting from the bins weren't all that I thought they were. I started trying to find a local roaster but after having no luck I started researching home roasting. within a few weeks I had a Behmor, (and then a second one when it turned out that the first one was damaged in shipping) and a new Maestro that replaced the Infinity that had gone up in smoke. By now I was reading the coffee and roasting forums on CG every chance I got and was happily roasting my own beans. I'd dug out the press that my sister had sent me a few years ago and found that the coffee was not as bad as it had been when I stored it away, evidently using good beans matters for press too. I wasn't reading the espresso forums because by now I realized how bad the steam toy was and I didn't want to start down that path, yet. Temptation being what it is, I went and started reading the espresso forums around Labor Day and by the middle of the month I had found a 18 year old Gaggia Espresso on the auction site that was going really cheap since it "leaked where the filter attaches." I figured I'd try it with the Maestro and see how it went, I made espresso but it was a PITA and I could never get it really get it dialed in just right. I borrowed an Infinity thinking that if it were better I could send in the one I had (hadn't tossed it yet) for repair, after a few attempts I returned my mom's Infinity and threw out my old one. I also tried a borrowed KA Proline but it didn't impress me either, I needed a better grinder. Sure enough, back to the 'bay. I got a MDF for a good price and was happy...for a month. My Maestro quit on me but Baratza was great about sending out a replacement, during this period I learned that a doser is a pain in the rear for 6-8 cups of drip coffee. By the middle of November I wanted a machine with a 3-way valve and wanted a bigger boiler. I found a deal on a Livietta T2 but the seller turned out to be a flake, a few weeks later I got a refund and within a couple hours I'd found a nice used Silvia. Silvia arrived in early December, she looked a lot better than the old white Gaggia and it was nice having a 3 way solenoid but it was harder to get a good shot out of her. I learned to temp surf but it was such a pain that I gave up and ordered a PID after about 4 weeks. I installed the PID as soon as it came and life got a little easier but I was still disappointed, by now I had about $600 into a used Silvia and a PID but the coffee was no better than what had come out of my ugly old plastic Gaggia. I looked around and decided I needed an upgrade. I started watching craigslist and the bay for a good deal on a better grinder, I looked at the machines while I was at it just in case. I knew my wife would lose it if I brought home one more coffee thing but I was hooked. I converted my MDF to stepless buy that was no cure for the case of upgradeitis I had caught. I found my K-6 on the bay in early February and for some reason I kept looking at machines. It might have been that I was never satisfied with Silvia or that she looked so tiny next to the K-6 but I knew her days were numbered. I found a great deal on a Bricoletto on Craigslist at the end of February and my upgraditis has been in remission ever since. I stay away from things like Mark Prince's GS or Speedster thread as much as I can and I'd be lying if I said that modifying the Bric hasn't crossed my mind but for the most part I'm happy with where I am once again....just like I was a year ago......just like I was one drip machine, one roaster, 2 drip/FP grinders, 3 espresso machines and 2 espresso grinders ago.
saturnine Senior Member Joined: 4 May 2009 Posts: 1 Location: Hôtel of M. de Tréville Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bialetti Moka Pot Grinder: Krups Burr Drip: The free Gevalia one... Roaster: Ha, not yet(?).
Posted Tue May 5, 2009, 6:29am Subject: Re: The Siren Song of Espresso...
So, DBarrel, I take it you wouldn't recommend the Saeco Aroma for a 1st machine? :(
I used to be indifferent to coffee (always liked the smell) until I started traveling with my job. After those early flights a double vanilla latte from Star$ was a no brainer on an expense acct. & it got me going. As time went on I got sick of the sweetness & started appreciating a regular latte & dabbled with them on the weekends as well.
It was about this time that my brother brought back some Kona coffee from his honeymoon in Hawaii & shared a package with me. Those were some damn fine grounds. Not long after that someone gave me a french press (grinding at the store) & I discovered the richness of body & aroma a cup of coffee could produce.
Then I heard about a Senseo from a forum & got one free in the mail. I thought it was pretty nifty at first but it soon lost its charm. After that, someone (on the same forum) told me about this Bialetti Moka Pot they purchased & how they were making homemade lattes with it. I decided to try one out & also get a grinder in the process. I had already read that blade grinders were a no-no, so I went straight for burr. I picked up a Krups burr grinder from Bed Bath & Beyond for $50 (knowing it was the low of the low end burrs - I had already discovered CG).
So at that point I was drinking my homemade lattes on the weekends, picking up coffee shop lattes whilst traveling & drinking the office coffee during the week as I had become thoroughly addicted to caffeine in the process. During the course of my travels I soon branched out & began sampling local coffee shops. I soon discovered (also thru my own brewing) that Star$ left a lot to be desired but found a few worthy local shops. At this point I unfortunately discovered I had become a coffee snob. Or so I thought.
Next came a vacation to France & Italy. NOW I get espresso. It's just so delicious after a big meal. And their cappuccinos (it seems their cap. are more similar in structure to Amer. lattes, am I mistaken in this?) were on a whole other plane of existence. The picture is complete & I foresee my ruin. Nothing is ever the same. On the plane home, I was in a bit of a depression as one normally is when ending a vacation, but one of the major contributors was that, unlike the wine in our suitcases, I was unable to bottle the espresso & take it home. I did bring home a bag of Tazza D'Oro beans & they performed remarkably well in the moka pot, but it was still not the same.
That was over a year ago. Since that time I have continually flirted with buying a semi-automatic espresso machine but never felt I could justify it. I have also largely cut back my caffeine intake to mainly the weekends as I don't like being addicted to anything. But now that I am almost a father, I feel I may need easier access to quality coffee on a regular basis. And dammit, I want an espresso after my evening meal without the wait time of my moka pot. But I am familiar with the path of destruction that lies before me as I have experienced it with other hobbies & am well aware of my personality. So I hesitate & wonder if I really need to complicate my life further with another expensive gadget that will possibly only be a starting point.
So I ask you, esteemed brothers & sisters of the bean, why do I need an espresso machine if I am relatively happy with my moka pot?
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci
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