Bob4lini Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 5 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Cafe Roma Grinder: Capresso Infinity Drip: Capresso Coffee Team Plus
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 8:22am Subject: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
I've been enjoying a daily Cappuccino for just over a year now. I have been using a Capresso grinder and a Breville Cafe Roma, which, for my purposes, has served me well. The Breville just died and I am thinking of upgrading to something like a Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, or possibly the Gaggia Baby Twin. I am a foam junkie and the Breville actually made getting a nice microfoam, pretty easy. However, I sometimes find myself trying to make several milk based drinks in a row and that is where the Breville falls short. So, I guess I'm looking for a machine that will give me really great foam and lots of it. I have read that the Gaggia Classic is not good in this respect and the Silvia would be the better choice. But then there's that tempurature "surfing" I've read about. The Baby Twin looks good, with the twin heating units but it's a little more than I wanted to spend. I'm wondering if there is another machine out there that would suit my needs that I don't know about. I'm sure there is! All advice appreciated!
BrownWater Senior Member Joined: 1 Mar 2006 Posts: 219 Location: Ithaca, NY Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Salvatore, Expobar Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: fluid air
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 9:06am Subject: Re: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
Expobar pulser and office are HX machines for about $800. You can skip the high end single boilers like silvia and the gaggia coffee or baby and go right to a prosumer. wholelattelove.com sells them though I'm sure you can find them elsewhere.
Bob4lini Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 5 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Cafe Roma Grinder: Capresso Infinity Drip: Capresso Coffee Team Plus
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 9:41am Subject: Re: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
BrownWater Said:
Expobar pulser and office are HX machines for about $800. You can skip the high end single boilers like silvia and the gaggia coffee or baby and go right to a prosumer. wholelattelove.com sells them though I'm sure you can find them elsewhere.
The grinder I'm using is the Capresso Infinity conical burr grinder. I think it cost me about $100. Is it really THAT inferior? I know that I've read about grinders costing hundreds but what exactly is it that the more expensive ones do better? I mean, the Capresso grinds it fine enough and it appears to me to be consistent. (Then again, I am new at this.) Also, my main drinks are cappuccinos with an occasional espressso. Thanks for the input. Bob
mitchellb Senior Member Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 606 Location: Houston, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Pro, SAMA Lever Grinder: Mazzer Major Vac Pot: Cory DKG-S Drip: Bodum French Press Roaster: HGDB
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 12:06pm Subject: Re: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
I wouldn't say, Bob, that the grinder is inadequate.. I've never used one but it seems fine enough.. There is a difference, though, in being able to grind fine enough vs. a higher end grinder that was built for espresso. I think if you sat the capresso next to a mazzer or even a rocky and started pulling shots side by side you'd notice a world of difference. Some nice grinders and rebadges can be had at a good price to not break your budget..
You could also start with the machine and get a new grinder if you're not satisfied with the machine's performance.
I've never owned/used an infinity, but I own a Baratza Virtuoso which is in the same class as the Infinity. When I upgraded to a Macap stepless M4, there was no comparing the two. A higher end grinder will have several advantages over a Virtuoso/Infinity machine.
Durability is one for sure; when they say a Mazzer/macap will last a lifetime, they really mean it. These machines are well made and extremely heavy. I was pretty awed when my M4 arrived and it blew my expectations out of the water.
A better grinder can offer infinately stepless adjustment. This allows you to really dial in the grind to match your machine, beans, the aging of the beans, and technique. I had only a couple settings on the Virtuoso that worked for espresso which made me have to adjust my tamp to compensate.
Taste difference is big; my shots were immediately better. With my virtuoso, there was always something off(usually sour or bitter) about the shots and that problem was virtually fixed overnight.
The biggest difference I noticed is how well the shots pulled; they were far more consistant. With the Virtuoso I'd white knuckle every shot not knowing which ones would come out, but with the M4, I just pulled the shots and they came out the same each time. The shots would also pull longer and give more crema.
The best shot on my virtuoso probably came close to an average shot on my M4, but I've only had a couple really good shots from the virtuoso. It's not that you can't get a solid shot on your infinity, but you can't expect it to be the norm. I usually got got a shot that tasted alright in my caps and there's really nothing wrong with that if that's all you're looking for. However, if that's all you're looking for, you might want to rethink buying a new machine. There's a little bit of ignorance is bliss; you might not realize how inferior your Infinity is until you try something better.
Bob4lini Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 5 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Cafe Roma Grinder: Capresso Infinity Drip: Capresso Coffee Team Plus
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 3:18pm Subject: Re: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
Joel_B Said:
Yes.
I usually got got a shot that tasted alright in my caps and there's really nothing wrong with that if that's all you're looking for. However, if that's all you're looking for, you might want to rethink buying a new machine. There's a little bit of ignorance is bliss; you might not realize how inferior your Infinity is until you try something better.
Thanks for contributing to my badly needed coffee education. The Breville died, so I have to buy SOMETHING, as I am really missing my morning cappuccinos! I do enjoy an espresso once in a while( when out, not so much from the Breville) and think that if I get a decent machine, I'll enjoy them at home too! However, I just LOVE Cappuccinos and need a machine that will give me a great foam. I'd also like to be able to use a larger pitcher and steam/foam enough milk to make several milk based drinks in a row. When making drinks for guests with the Breville, I had to pull the shot, steam the milk. Pull a shot, steam the milk, repeatedly. Maybe I need a double boiler? Bob
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 4:05pm Subject: Re: Advice needed for under $800 machine.
Bob, sorry, I should have read your op more closely. Well if your machine died, then I guess now we be as good of a time as any to upgrade. If you're looking at doing multiple shots and steaming milk, you might want to look at an HX or double boiler machine, but the $800 price is going to be at the low end of that unless you can find something used.
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