Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
Saeco Espresso Machines
Large selection in-stock, includes Free Gifts and Free Shipping!
www.espressozone.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Heat exchangers...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
Whodat
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Boston
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ02S, La Peppina
Grinder: Isomac Gran Macinino
Posted Thu Feb 19, 2004, 8:02pm
Subject: Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
 

What exactly is the difference between a heat exchanger & a boiler?  Is the former part of the latter?  I know that dual boilers are Good--you can pull shots & steam at the same time, & this feature is usually seen only on high end machines.  The Capresso EspressoPro is definitely not high end but is apparently "single boiler, dual heat exchanger", & can in fact go pretty much directly from one activity to the other.

Finally, what exactly is a thermoblock boiler, how does it differ from a non-thermoblock boiler, and is it a Good, Bad, or Indiferent thing?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
marrone
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 194
Location: Bakersfield
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Pasquini, Spong
Roaster: Hot Top, Fresh Roast +
Posted Thu Feb 19, 2004, 10:59pm
Subject: Re: Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
 

A conventional boiler for espresso is a small tank with a heating element in it. Fittings to add water, extract water and steam, safety valves, thermostats, safety plugs, etc. are attached to the boiler.

A heat exchanger in an HX machine typically is a little pipe that passes through the boiler, but is isolated from the water and pressure in the boiler.

A thermoblock boiler is similar, except that the heating element is embedded in a block of aluminum, and the volume of water is relatively tiny. Look closely at the thermal stability of the unit, since there isn't much thermal mass to keep everything at a constant temp.

Ted
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
korngold
Senior Member
korngold
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Des Moines, IA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Melitta Clarity
Roaster: WE Popcorn Pumper
Posted Thu Feb 19, 2004, 10:59pm
Subject: Re: Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
 

Whodat,

Not sure exactly how the heat exchanger works, but somehow it's the "picture in picture" of the boiler world, if I understand correctly.  A smaller boiler for the espresso resides within an outer boiler of steam.  PLEASE correct me (anyone) if I'm wrong, as I would like to understand this concept, too.

The thermoblock, on the other hand, is a fairly easy one.  It is a "snaky" block of aluminum that is heated up.  The block is essentially an extension of the tubing between the pump & the group head, and the tube "snakes" through the block to give it more surface area.  The block itself flash-heats the water as it passes through.  This way, you don't have water sitting in a boiler heating up.  It's a good concept, but doesn't work great in execution IMO, as the pump always pumps the same amount of water at the same speed, but if you're reservoir water is really cold, the flash heater doesn't get the chance to adequately heat the water before it's through the thermoblock.  Then it hits the brew head & your espresso under temp.  I think only Krups and Capresso (on some models) use this system.

There are larger versions of this for the home, I think they're called 'flash heaters' and the issue is the same.  I hear they are great if you live in warm climate with warm ground water, b/c you don't have to pay for a water heater to continuously heat 50 - 100 gallons of water.  However, in cold climate, where ground water is LOW temp, the water is not heated up well enough during the winter, and you may end up taking cold or luke warm showers all winter.   Polar bear club, here I come!

Please feel free to correct me, as I am just speaking from what I have heard, not from an actual machine dissection or schematic.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Link to this post
fad
Senior Member
fad
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Sydney, Australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Grimac La Uno, Isomac...
Grinder: Mazzer SJ. Cunill...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: SwissGold
Roaster: Ron Kyle BBQ Drum,...
Posted Thu Feb 19, 2004, 11:51pm
Subject: Re: Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
 

Whodat Said:

What exactly is the difference between a heat exchanger & a boiler?  Is the former part of the latter?  I know that dual boilers are Good--you can pull shots & steam at the same time, & this feature is usually seen only on high end machines.  The Capresso EspressoPro is definitely not high end but is apparently "single boiler, dual heat exchanger", & can in fact go pretty much directly from one activity to the other.

Finally, what exactly is a thermoblock boiler, how does it differ from a non-thermoblock boiler, and is it a Good, Bad, or Indiferent thing?

Posted February 20, 2004 link

Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, download Poccino's documentation (Acrobat PDF format) and take a look at pages 9 and 10. You won't need to be able to understand German to see what's going on.

Page 9 shows a schematic of a single boiler on the left, and a HX on the right.
Page 10 shows a schematic of a thermoblock.

The main difference between the types is the heat source's temperature.

With thermoblock & single boiler, the temperature is either at espresso temperature or manually raised to steaming temp. So you can't draw a shot and steam at the same time.

HX machines, on the other hand, keep the boiler at steam temperature. The water for espresso is carried in a tube that passes through the boiling water. If the manufacturers have done their job correctly, by the time the water travels from the tank (or mains) to the grouphead the water will have picked up the right amount of heat. This also means that the first shot on an unattended HX machine will be far too hot, since the water will be at steaming temperature.

Very high end machines will have dual (or multiple) boilers. One kept at steam temperature and one set for espresso.

Download the PDF and it'll all make a lot more sense.

Cheers

Paul Haddon
Sydney, Aus
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Whodat
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Boston
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ02S, La Peppina
Grinder: Isomac Gran Macinino
Posted Fri Feb 20, 2004, 3:30am
Subject: Re: Heat exchangers &  boilers & thermoblocks, oh my!
 

Danke, fad.
It's a bit hard to see exactly how everything connects, but it makes the principle clear.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Heat exchangers...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
La Marzocco GS/3
Watch a video crew review. Authorized dealer. Best price, free shipping!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2012 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.315945863724)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS