DannyBoy21 Senior Member Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Apr 28, 2008, 8:17pm Subject: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
Hello everyone. I have been perusing coffegeek and its forums for the past week and a half and have become slightly overwhelmed. It seems every machine I look up has some good reviews and some bad reviews. So I'm looking for some advice. Basically, I'm looking for the best combination of a grinder and a pump espresso machine that I can get for around $300.
Some more details on me: I'm relatively inexperienced with espresso. I've never made any myself, and don't think I have the most discerning palate - yet! I've been using a Bialetti Mukka stovetop maker for cappucinos and lattes for about a year, and I'm ready to move on up to some real espresso. I've gathered that at my price level, the grinder is as important as the maker. Per coffeegeek recommendations, I would like to stay way from any "crema enhancers" and "froth enhancers" - but this isn't set in stone, considering I'm not a Barista and haven't yet developed any skills of my own. I will probably make more cappuccinos and lattes than espressos, although who knows what my tastes will be in a few years. Here's a couple of things I've been looking at:
Breville Conical Burr Grinder (recommended by Coffeegeek's "how-to" guide) - around $80 at B,B and B. Gaggia 35008 Carezza - around $237 at Amazon.
also,
Capresso Infinity Burr - around $80 (w/ plastic housing) at B,B, and B. Krups XP 2070 - around $240 with coupon at B,B and B.
Also, the Cuisinart Manual Espresso (~$220) has got really good reviews on Amazon, though I couldn't find any here at coffeegeek.
Anyway, please tell me if I'm way off track here or you have any good suggestions for alternate machines. Thank you!
The_Shadow Senior Member Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 155 Location: North Carolina Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: KA Pro Line Grinder: Modified KA Pro Line Vac Pot: N/A Drip: N/A Roaster: Not Yet, Want An I-2
Posted Tue Apr 29, 2008, 6:39am Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
Well for the money you have to spend I'd go with the Capresso Infinity and the Gaggia machine you mentioned. The Infinity is a nice all-around grinder that is espresso capable, even if it's not the best home machine out there. For $80 you won't beat it.... The Gaggia machines are tried and true and should work well. Don't forget a decent tamper, frothing pitcher, thermometer, fresh beans, etc.
Posted Tue Apr 29, 2008, 9:05am Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
I would look at used equipment... $300 is a low budget, but can be done. You can probably pick up a used gaggia carezza for $100, and then put the rest towards a grinder. If you're handy, I'd suggest picking up a used commercial grinder (i.e. nuova simonelli, fiorenzato, etc) on ebay, cleaning it up, and throwing in some new burrs. Not too difficult, and can be done for less than $200 if you're patient. With the capresso you're going to struggle to get good espresso. Another option is to look for a used rocky, there was one on here for $225 a couple days ago...
BrownWater Senior Member Joined: 1 Mar 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Ithaca, NY Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Salvatore, Expobar Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: fluid air
Posted Tue Apr 29, 2008, 2:56pm Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
You can probably get some used and refurbished things from WholeLatteLove.com and possibly stay in your budget but I'd go check something like craigslist that is more localized and even has people giving things away. Maybe you can open a wanted add for used espresso machines and grinders.
The best advice I think you could get would be to save up some more cash and buy some good machines that'll make you happy and last longer.
DannyBoy21 Senior Member Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Apr 29, 2008, 9:25pm Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
Thank you for the advice. I think I am going to go with new equipment at this point, with the understanding that if my tastes and devotion to the good cause improve, I will have to upgrade in the future. Another consideration came to my mind tonight while reading some other threads, are some of these machines going to be better or worse for making lattes and cappucinos? I suspect that these will form the bulk of my creations early on. Should I look for a longer/shorter wand, wand placement, wand attachments, etc.? I know the general rule of thumb is the less frills on the wand the better, but it seems the makers of these machines can't leave well enough alone with these entry-level units and insist on adding "froth enhancers" and the like.
I don't understand why you prefer to further limit your options with such a low starting budget but to each his own. For under $400 total you can get a $200 new Gaggia Espresso (or Carezza) plus a new Mini-Pro grinder from Vaneli's CLICK HERE The Mini Pro should be better grinding for espresso than the Capresso.
DannyBoy21 Said:
Another consideration came to my mind tonight while reading some other threads, are some of these machines going to be better or worse for making lattes and cappucinos? I suspect that these will form the bulk of my creations early on. Should I look for a longer/shorter wand, wand placement, wand attachments, etc.?
The "froth enhancer" thingys are to help make up for poor steam power from the small-boiler machines. You'll find them common in this range of machines. The small Gaggia machines have stubby short steam wands but the froth enhancer removes easily.....you can lern to trick the machine into keeping the boiler heaters on while steaming to improve the steam performance and you can use a smallish (12 oz) pitcher for frothing milk for single drinks that will work well with the short steam wand.
If your intention is to make 12-ounce latte drinks rather than "classic" cappucino's at 5-6 ounces then you may want to consider a separate frother (perhaps a $20 ebay steamtoy)
Posted Wed Apr 30, 2008, 12:12pm Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
Hi DannyBoy, I started out about where you are a year ago. I got a cheap (Hamilton Beach) espresso machine as a gift and bought a refurbished Virtuoso grinder to go with it. They both were okay, sort of - neither were terrible, but you can do better without spending more. I also wanted to buy new, because I was paranoid about buying used online from individuals... and I wanted a warranty. Never have bought from ebay, but I've since bought a few things here from Coffeegeek members (including my new machine!), and so far so good. I definitely wouldn't dismiss used equipment out of hand at your price range, especially if you know what to look for.
When comparing machine reviews, pay more attention to the quality of the espresso they can make. Milk can hide some of the flaws in a not-great shot, but a crappy shot still makes a crappy latte IMHO... and once you get a machine and start making your own, you'll learn to tell the difference more easily. OTOH if you're a capp/latte drinker you will want to pay some attention to what the reviews say about steaming, especially since some cheaper machines seem to like to cut corners here. The steam wand on my Hamilton Beach is so ridiculously short... I had to use a lot more milk than I really wanted to, just to get it high enough in the pitcher to where the wand would reach it.
The clearance between the spouts and the drip tray was also so small that only the shortest of cups would fit in there. A regular coffee mug? Way too tall. But in the end, *especially at this price point*, just focus on the espresso quality. Those other things are annoying, but rarely deal-breakers.
I would stay away from Krups or Cuisinart for espresso. Check out reviews of their other products here to get an idea. And keep the "quality" score of the reviews in mind as well - that indicates whether other Coffeegeeks think the reviewer knows what they're talking about. :) The Infinity sounds like a maybe, but again I think you can do better in your range.
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 426 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: No Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri May 2, 2008, 12:51pm Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
A grinder/combo NEW for $300 is possible, but barely -- and, no ofense, hardly worthwhile. Upgrade-itis will hit you so fast, and so hard, you'll just look at that $300 investment as little more that having thrown your money away . . .Indeed, I cannot come up with a combination that stays below the $300 price point you've set for yourself. Wish I could.
You may instead want to take a look at this refurbished Gaggia Coffee for $223.50, with no shipping or sales tax (versus $299 new). Admittedly, this would be as "low" as I would go looking for in an espresso machine. Then again, I used a Gaggia Coffee every day, seven days a week for some 15 years! Indeed, I still use it in my office every weekday, though I have a better machine now at home.
Don't scrimp on the grinder. It's just as important (if not more so) than the machine itself. This doesn't mean you have to spend $1,000+ on a KS-30 from Malkonig or an M3 from Versalab. But it doesn't mean you can stick with that $19.99 blade grinder, either! Take a look at the Gaggia MDF which -- at $299, I know -- is more than your original budget allows. Other worthwhile grinders include the Le'Lit P53 ($229); the Ascaso I-Mini (also $229); the Ascaso I-2 ($255); the Isomac Gran Maccinino ($269); among several other truly viable options.
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 426 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: No Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat May 3, 2008, 10:05am Subject: Re: Best Machine/Grinder combo for $300?
Just thought I'd add that you can get some great deals on eBay which will keep you closer to budget. As I write this, there is a Gaggia MDF for under $140 and a Rossi RR45 grinder going for less than $105!
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