PhillySteve Senior Member Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Posts: 32 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Cimbali Max Hybrid, Mazzer... Vac Pot: not anymre Drip: only if I must Roaster: a bunch of'em
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 1:18pm Subject: GS/3 -- making the decision
There seem to be some odd little turf wars waging under various headings in various groups. Given that, I thought it might be prudent to create a specific topic wherein folks could discuss their decision making process as well as pleasant surprises and bitter disappointments following the purchase of the La Marzocco GS/3. Hopefully we can do this without upsetting owners or supporters of other models and without any aspersions being cast at posters. This is a place to discuss coffee machines, not for personal vendettas.
When I set out to buy the best machine on the market for my purposes, I quickly narrowed the choices down to 2 machines. The Synesso Cyncra and th GS/3. These machines both offer dual SS boilers, saturated groups, PID control, and abundant theoretical and anecdotal evidence of fantastic thermal stability. IOW, these machines take much of the guesswork out of making great espresso. The street price for the GS/3 is currently $6500, the Cyncra $7500, so it's pretty close in that regard. So it would not be cost that would make the decision. In addition, I would be buying one of these things sight unseen. So I would have to rely on forums and reviews, lots of opinion and conjecture, to try and make the right decision.
As a former E-61 user (yes, there's an Isomac in my basement now), I prefer the interaction of a semi-automatic machine. I've also long been partial to the chromed-out look of the E-61 machines. In this sense, the Cyncra takes the cake. Though LM released a GS3 with paddle group, such an animal is not curently available as a production unit. (here's hoping the rumored mod kit comes out soon). So, from the get-go I was biased toward the bulky metal purity of the Cyncra. But it has a few issues which for me personally, made it the wrong choice. First off, it's bigger than the GS/3. As I need to fit the machine in my kitchen, size counts. The GS/3 manages to pack not only the dual SS boilers and the PID in its smaller box, but also the pump and a reservoir (which you can opt to use or not). This makes the GS/3 more home friendly. Whether it makes it less repair friendly is a matter for consideration. As we all enter the fray of the new uber-machines, reliability and service matters will begin to take a more definite form. But from a pure home-use standpoint, the GS/3 just seemed likely to work better for me. Less hoses, less holes, PID controls aren't tucked under the machine behind the drip tray, the machine can be moved very easily. If any of this resulted in a performance hit, it would have killed the deal. But the engineers at LM did a great job (in most ways) of shoehorning it all in a concise, but heavy, package. As it turns out, I love the looks of the GS3 in my kitchen. I think the Cyncra with it's bolts, while appealing in its own way, just wouldn't have looked as good in my house. But this is purely an aesthetic, and so, a personal preference.
What the GS3 does well... I love the protruding GS style saturated group which make monitoring pours very easy. I love the chronos feature. Programmable preinfusion. It's very quiet. Steam control joystick is very nice and placed well. Build quality is good (with exceptons, see below) The control layout is OK I guess. Again, it's bound to be fussy given its depth of features, but I think it could be improved a bit. Backed by a long-standing legendary manufacturer and innovator, LM. The adjustable mix-down hot water tap is awesome. Wife loves it :) It really does make terrific coffee.
What need improvement... The drip tray... yup, it's lousy. On a Krups it's be fine, but for what this puppy costs?! C'mon! Please send us a better one guys! Should be a little deeper and engineered to a higher standard. Software bugs (none that affect use, but odd little quircks) Paddle mod please! I found it easier to get good microfoam on my Vivaldi. No doubt my technique is the problem. But I'm looking for a better steam tip.
I have no regrets about buying this machine. That said, it does need improvement in a couple minor areas. Let's hope LM keeps up with it.
xdavez Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 1,157 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: Professional
Espresso: La Spaziale Vivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer mini Vac Pot: none Drip: Technivorm
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 1:32pm Subject: Re: GS/3 -- making the decision
I'm confused PS!
the gs is currently $7500 at chris's -- to what street price are you referring?
and if you are to penetrate a counter for water lines, etc. why not the pressure line from the pump which would be under the sink, and even quieter. paddle group? already there, and no mods
and the cyncra is US made, and given exchange rates, what about value? This will continue for a while, and the US made machine will wind up less, IMHO.
Aesthetics? well that is up to you. but custom panels on the cyncra?? why not?
Shop around and haggle. I did not pay retail. If all shipments are presently spoken for, you may not have much room to bargain.
if you are to penetrate a counter for water lines, etc. why not the pressure line from the pump which would be under the sink, and even quieter. paddle group? already there, and no mods
Yup, love do the paddle. Ah, that I could meld the 2 machines... I just don't see any real advantage to the external pump. Also, having a 2" hole in my granite, vs a 1/4" hole at the back-splash -- just not for me unless there was a really clear benefit. Believe me, the machine is very quiet. Others don't mind. But for me, a clean installation and an occasional trip to the shore are factors.
and the cyncra is US made, and given exchange rates, what about value? This will continue for a while, and the US made machine will wind up less, IMHO.
We don't really know what the companies margins are. We can only talk current price and value to buyer. I'll leave the speculation to Bear-Stearns :)
Aesthetics? well that is up to you. but custom panels on the cyncra?? why not?
Sure. I think the LM has a sleeker look. Tuly a personal choice. But more important for me, it had to fit comfortably under a cabinet (at least for now), so the Cncra would have made it tough.
roblumba Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 349 Location: San Jose Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 3:29pm Subject: Re: GS/3 -- making the decision
PhillySteve Said:
The drip tray... yup, it's lousy. On a Krups it's be fine, but for what this puppy costs?! C'mon! Please send us a better one guys! Should be a little deeper and engineered to a higher standard.
Deeper? Have you actually filled this thing in normal daily use? I would think the average home owner would find that the water would start stinking from sitting for days, long before the thing actually filled to the top.
PhillySteve Senior Member Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Posts: 32 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Cimbali Max Hybrid, Mazzer... Vac Pot: not anymre Drip: only if I must Roaster: a bunch of'em
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 6:53pm Subject: Re: GS/3 -- making the decision
roblumba Said:
Deeper? Have you actually filled this thing in normal daily use? I would think the average home owner would find that the water would start stinking from sitting for days, long before the thing actually filled to the top.
Hehe... I meant deeper front to back. It's capacity is fine, I agree. I just got used to the Isomac, so the GS/3 drip tray, while not atypical, seems a bit shallow.
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