ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 376 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008, 7:18am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
ChicagoSandy Said:
The flaking-plating story always sounded a bit fishy to me, since I never saw any plated boilers in any machine I've seen with the cover off. I can understand elements or other components shorting out, however. BTW, does the "relay switch" have anything to do with letting water run? Could a stuck relay switch be causing the water to keep running, and the p'stat and/or OPV have failed (again), causing the pressure gauge problem and constant boiler refills?
When troubleshooting any problem, the key to success is first understanding how the process you are troubleshooting works, and then looking at what could cause the problem/failure that is the result. Likely what is happening with your Livia is a compound of problems. I am curious as to what kind of water you are using? The reason I am mentioning the water, is that two years is not really a long time in the lifespan of an espresso machine. I have a 10 year old Saeco Via Veneto that still works fine, although it does leak a little from the steam valve. Hard water could cause scale build up in your machine that could be causing various moving components to stick. Off hand, I can think of a one thing that would cause your problem.
When an HX first turns on, it typically turns on the pump to refill the boiler. Once the boiler reaches it's fill point, the pump turns off, and a solenoid blocks access to the boiler from the pump. This then allows water to flow through the grouphead. Now, imagine that your solenoid is stuck in a position that doesn't allow water to reach the boiler. The pump will keep running, the water will flow through the grouphead, and since water is never making it to the boiler, it will continue doing this. That would be the first thing I would check if it were my machine. I could be wrong as this is based on my understanding of the diagram of how my Rancilio S24 works, and since I have never worked on it, I haven't yet tested my understanding. It would explain the jittery needle, since there may not be enough water in the boiler, it would explain the leaking water and boiler constantly refilling, because the solenoid might have been sticky, and therefore not completely closed or open at that time, and it does explain the running water from the grouphead as the solenoid may now be stuck completely blocking water from reaching the boiler.
ChicagoSandy Said:
Not even gonna speculate as to what's wrong with the Magister; if the repair shop owner can't fix it while at my house, I will cut my losses, ask for my Livia back, and I guess bite the bullet and pay for shipping and repair costs to send it to you at Cafe West.
Good for you Sandy. Stick to your guns. These guys sound very dishonest. It may be that they just don't know what they are doing, but regardless, you are paying the price. Unfortunately, there are such people in every service industry. It is not the way to be successful in business, but likely, they don't really understand what customer service is all about. They are looking at today, and not at tomorrow. Like automechanics, and computer technicians, a good espresso machine technician is worth going out of your way for.
I really hope this works out for you in the end. It really sucks to be taken advantage of!
Good luck! Byron
Day two of being smokeless...and still surviving.
EDIT: (added suggestion) You may want to watch him troubleshoot the Magister, and when he fails fixing it, follow him back to the shop to get your Livia. Watch over their shoulder while they put your Livia back together too. I don't think you can trust these guys so don't give them any space to take advantage. Bring your son with you, if that is possible. Better yet, a 240 lb biker friend.
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008, 10:36am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
You could always sell the non-working Livia and put the money towards something else. I'd probably even be interested just for a project to work on, but maybe these guys won't give you too much of a hassle if you want to just get out of working with them anymore. It sounds like you're busy quite a bit with your gigs and stuff, so on your days off I'm sure this situation isn't something you want to deal with - you should be pulling tasty shots instead.
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008, 11:42am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
I'm using Crystal Geyser bottled water (per Jerry's suggestion, IIRC, back in my Livia's early days--using it in the Silvia too). Never descaled the Livia, as I understand descaling an HX is not a DIY for all but the most intrepid tinkerers. (I descale Silvia 3x/yr. with citric acid or Cleancaf, whatever I have on hand). I'm afraid my son, while quite handsome, witty, and gallant, is not exactly the physically-intimidating type: the closest he comes to athletics is Improv Olympic. He can just about haul the machine up from the garage to the kitchen.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 376 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008, 2:42pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
ChicagoSandy Said:
I'm using Crystal Geyser bottled water (per Jerry's suggestion, IIRC, back in my Livia's early days--using it in the Silvia too). Never descaled the Livia, as I understand descaling an HX is not a DIY for all but the most intrepid tinkerers. (I descale Silvia 3x/yr. with citric acid or Cleancaf, whatever I have on hand). I'm afraid my son, while quite handsome, witty, and gallant, is not exactly the physically-intimidating type: the closest he comes to athletics is Improv Olympic. He can just about haul the machine up from the garage to the kitchen.
While passive intimidation would have been an asset, I still think it would be good to have a witness. Even if you don't intend on pursuing this in small claims court, having a witness around would be a good thing. As well, it would ensure Mr Repair Man is on his best behaviour. I guess the water is most likely not the source of the problem. I don't remember what I read about the Livia. That was over 6 months ago but in my opinion, it would be worth having it repaired. It is only two years old after all.
If you decide to ship the Livia to your service provider, get directions for preparing it for shipping. I don't know what it is like in Chicago, but I just finished shovelling off my roof. I'm not sure if that was wise, as I am only on day 2 of quiting smoking, but the opportunity doesn't come every day. Four feet deep in places and my roof is sloped a bit. So we still have a little winter left in these parts.
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 12:08am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
Oy vey, Byron--never gonna complain about Chicago winters again. (And here I thought *I* was sick of snow!!!).
I agree that 2-1/2 yrs. is not very old for an espresso machine. Heck, I've had a Saeco (Estro Profi) and even that nasty little Capresso Ultima P.O.S. last twice that long. Supposedly the guy from Shop Espresso (there, I said it) is coming tomorrow--will nag him as soon as I get up, as he specifically asked me Fri. if I'd be home tomorrow. I will tell him to haul the Livia along just in case he can't fix the Magister on-site. Before I ship it back to Cafe West or Pasquini, I will see if Cora or EspressoBest can do a better job (they are out in the far boonie 'burbs--thus saving me a couple of hundred bucks for shipping up & back). In an ideal universe, I'd pop for a Brewtus II or Andreja Premium, but I don't have a spare grand and a half lying around (especially with our retirement portfolio shrinking daily).
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 5:31pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
Just had the repair guys over. They pulled the Magister apart and determined that the boiler had overfilled (due to the probe being misread), and that the pump is shot. They took it back and will put in a new (not rebuilt) Ulka pump (they wished that they could fit a new rotary pump but don't think the architecture of the machine could handle it; I am also limited to a 110-120V line and a pourover). If they can't get it to work in the shop they will let me take my pick of the commercial HXs they have in there and they will make sure it works perfectly. The proprietor was actually very focused and took nearly an hour before he concluded he could not fix it on-site. To quote him, "I won't be satisfied till you are." Since I have another trip to NY coming up for Easter, and a working Silvia, I will give him another chance. BTW, his shop was hit by a car this morning--a teenage student driver, being taught by his uncle, lost control and crashed into the burglar gate, breaking the window and nearly pinning him and his son who'd just walked through the door.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
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