ChrisUK Senior Member Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Posts: 49 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Pub Single HX Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 5:09am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
Sound like you've been had..........i can't beleive your friend says your a pushy new-yorker......i think you've given them plenty of chances to get it right......i'd have never given them as many chances as you did......if they messed it up the second time i'd have been demanding my money back then.
Sounds like they have a load of old machines and just keep swapping out parts until they get something to work (or not)............they'll be replacing all your parts with second hand junk. Get online or visit a shop and buy a new one!
ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 376 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 6:38am Subject: @#$%^&*(O Unreputable repair shop!!!
ChrisUK Said:
Sound like you've been had..........i can't beleive your friend says your a pushy new-yorker......i think you've given them plenty of chances to get it right......i'd have never given them as many chances as you did......if they messed it up the second time i'd have been demanding my money back then.
Sounds like they have a load of old machines and just keep swapping out parts until they get something to work (or not)............they'll be replacing all your parts with second hand junk. Get online or visit a shop and buy a new one!
I have to agree 100% with you on this, and I'm Canadian!
Man...that sucks! Been there, got the scars! Not with espresso machines...but I know how you feel. It is a really bad sign when they give you the machine and it is dirty. No reputable repair shop will ever do that. My recommendation, is that you watch over his shoulder as he repairs it, and make sure he puts in new parts. Then, if you still can't get satisfaction, you could consider fixing it yourself with help from CG. There are so many very capable people on here willing to help. I'm sure you don't want to go there, but it seems to me your alternative will be much more frustrating.
My heart goes out to you...good luck. Byron
EDIT: I just realized I lied. I have been there with an espresso machine. My very first pump machine was a used Delonghi I bought from a pawn shop. I was a regular shopper there, and one day I found a pump espresso machine. I asked the owner before I bought it, if I could return it if it didn't work, because I couldn't try it out in the store. He said no problem, of course.
Well, I got it home, and it leaked like a sieve. I then found a place that repairs home machines, and he looked at it, and said it wasn't repairable...it had been left to freeze with water in it. I brought it back to the pawn shop, and then the owner told me he would never have said that. He wouldn't take it back, so I ended up with a piece of junk. I never did step back into that place...and it is no longer around.
frcn Senior Member Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 637 Location: Yankee Hill Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Super Grinder: Mazzer Kony, 2Baratzas Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory... Drip: Bunn A10 mod for temperature... Roaster: 4Hottops, 1HWP, 1 Gourmet
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 7:57am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
ChicagoSandy Said:
Actually, to recap, here's the chronology:
Mid-Sept.--After innumerable phone calls and threats to go to Consumer Affairs, owner calls. Machine ready, come & get it. I go to pick it up, insist on testing it, and you guessed it......still running water out grouphead. Shop owner is stumped, says it worked fine before I got there--while I am there he swaps out cables, harnesses, p'stat, entire computer control box, to no avail. Offers to take it for parts and sell me a new Livia 90S, which has fewer electronics to go blooey, for $500, $300 less than his cost, to make up for the time and money spent. I agree, since I'd never used the automatic features of the 90A (orig. bought it bec. price was irresistible) and he says the new 90S will take a week for it to arrive.
Does the phrase "lying sack of ***" come to anyone else's lips? What kind of shop is this? Do they work on Fiats and flat screen TVs as well? Cut you loses with these idiots. Get what you can out of them. They ripped you off with the Livia (IMO) putting in bad parts on purpose to make you think it was some mysterious malady. Did they TELL you they did that or did you SEE them the place the parts. There are plenty of good suppliers on the web. After all that it would even be worth a drive to a shop like 1st-line of Chis's Coffee to get a real machine from someone who knows what customer service is. It would also be nice to let us know who these people are as THEY ARE TO BE AVOIDED LIKE FOLGER'S!
I wonder if you were a man, weighed 265, and rode a Harley if this would have happened. Maybe the first time, but if you rode up with a dozen buddies it would have been fixed fast!
Find a good lawyer and rip these guys a new one. People make fun of California Consumer laws, but they sure look good right now after reading this story. How much you want to bet that they did a $12.00 repiar on your first machine and have already sold it for hundreds?
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 8:02am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
ChicagoSandy Said:
As far as getting my money back, problem is that I suspect that ready cash is not their strong suit, which is why they're trying to give me a working machine (unsuccessfully so far) at no additional cost to me.
That's their problem, not yours. One option would be to file in small claims court. You'd probably get your money back on the morning of the court date. :-(
ChicagoSandy Said:
Were they to give me back my Livia it'd be just as useless, since it was broken when I brought it in. I don't have the cash or available credit to buy something new from a "reputable vendor" (e.g. WLL, 1st-Line, Chris' Coffee, Sweet Maria's); if I did, do you think I would have even bothered to get the Livia repaired out-of-warranty? Call me naive, but one would expect that when a $1400 machine (even if I paid only $1100) breaks after only 2-1/2 years it would be repairable locally at a reasonable cost, not disposable. To have had it crated up and shipped up and back plus the repair charges would have been nearly as much as a new machine. I am between a rock and a hard place.
Shipping on the 37# Livia should be under $50 in the continental US. It will need double boxing, but not crating. Send it someplace reputable (maybe Home Espresso Repair in Seattle?) and it should be fixable for much less than the cost of a new machine.
Hope this story has a happy ending one day. You're right, this ain't the way things are s'pozed to be. But as your sig line states: life's too short... ____ John
Because by the time I packed it up & paid shipping both ways plus repair costs, it would have been close to the cost of another HX machine (albeit perhaps not a Livia 90A or even 90S at current street price), and I am also not strong enough to haul the sucker to the shipping office--it's no lightweight. I also have heard horror stories of damage in long-distance transit. And I am not enamored of the prospect now of owning a machine that is prone to shorting out from chrome flaking off the internals.
I watched them last fall as they tried for over an hour to fix the Livia. And she's still there, with her guts hanging out--I saw her. They are not dealers, except for restaurants, coffee houses and large offices (such as law firms, brokerages who like to show off their superautos to clients they want to impress or opponents they want to intimidate). Most people I know buying a new machine (myself included) go through regular online vendors anyway.
I am a lawyer, and used that threat as leverage--otherwise they'd have blown me off completely rather than trying to (albeit incompetently) build me a working HX machine. I get the sinking feeling, though, that the way they "test" their repairs is to plug them in and see if they heat up and run water through them without blowing up--I seriously doubt now if they've actually pulled shots in the shop. That explains how the guy swears the thing "worked" when he "tested" it--first time I was about to bring the Magister home, I watched him perform just such a "test" on the shop's wet-bench. Never occurred to me that a little thing like adding coffee to the portafilter would stymie it.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
ByronA Senior Member Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 376 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio S24, KitchenAid... Grinder: Compak K5, KitchenAid... Vac Pot: Don't want one Drip: Don't want one Roaster: Will eventually get one
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 3:08pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
Sandy,
My guess is they really don't know what they are doing. They are probably self taught, which can be fine, but isn't necessarily. I also suspect that what he said about the chrome flaking and shorting out the element is a lot of ___ in order to change your mind. It also excuses him from having 'Pasquini end their relationship'. I'm not surprised your machine is still in pieces on their workbench. Honestly, you would be better off if you also ended your relationship with them. Nothing really good can come of it.
I would suggest you try to cut your losses and get back as much as you can, and then get away from them as quickly as possible. Then I would try to find a good resource through CG in Chicago. There must be a few.
cafewest_tech Senior Member Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 269 Location: Medford Expertise: Professional
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 6:45pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
Hi Sandy
Did you write down the serial # of your Magister? That is always one way of knowing you get your machine back. Most good machines have a serial # on them.
I also suspect that what he said about the chrome flaking and shorting out the element is a lot of ___ in order to change your mind
I don't think there is chrome on the inside of any boiler, because of the chance it would peel. The element being bad on a Pasquini is very doubtful. I have only seen 2 in 8 years of working on them and one was covered on sediment form the water being used. The other had a relay that stuck on. Pasquini elements don't turn on until they are covered with water, so burning out is rare.
Breeze Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2006 Posts: 556 Location: St. Croix, V.I. Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Pasquini Livia S Grinder: Mazzer Mini/Rocky Drip: TechniVorm/Krups MB Roaster: Toper 1 kilo
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 7:29pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
ChicagoSandy Said:
Late Sept.--I drop in to buy the new Livia 90S. Shop owner informs me he has severed ties with Pasquini due to a Pasquini rep's admission that they have serious problems with chrome flaking off internals and shorting out boiler (as well as getting in the water).
I am NOT an espresso machine mechanic but I AM a person with a broad background in machines, machining, plating, welding, and other industrial processes. Just what "internal" component(s) are going to be chrome plated? Chrome Plating is deposited on base metal for appearance, and corrosion resistance on exposed ferrous metals. On brass it serves NO purpose other than appearance. Is he trying to suggest that internal brass components are plated? I have not opened my Livia 90 to check but for anyone to waste money plating water or steam lines or boiler internals would be a foolish waste of money and be asking for trouble. Eggs Ackley where are these chrome flakes coming from....Mars? I tink he be pullin you leg......
Posted Sat Mar 15, 2008, 9:31pm Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
cafewest_tech Said:
Hi Sandy
Did you write down the serial # of your Magister? That is always one way of knowing you get your machine back. Most good machines have a serial # on them.
I don't think there is chrome on the inside of any boiler, because of the chance it would peel. The element being bad on a Pasquini is very doubtful. I have only seen 2 in 8 years of working on them and one was covered on sediment form the water being used. The other had a relay that stuck on. Pasquini elements don't turn on until they are covered with water, so burning out is rare.
Hi, Jerry, Actually, the Magister is the one they provided as a replacement for the Livia, which they were unable to repair--they were rebuilding a used MS-40 for me--never occurred to me they'd switch it out; but since this one is doing EXACTLY what it was doing when I first brought it home, it's probably the same one. It was in their shop since Nov. when I returned it the first time, so that probably explains why it was so full of dust and other shop shmutz. Never occurred to me to write down a serial #. (Cafe West probably has a record of my Livia's serial #, as you guys handled the service during the warranty period).
The flaking-plating story always sounded a bit fishy to me, since I never saw any plated boilers in any machine I've seen with the cover off. I can understand elements or other components shorting out, however. BTW, does the "relay switch" have anything to do with letting water run? Could a stuck relay switch be causing the water to keep running, and the p'stat and/or OPV have failed (again), causing the pressure gauge problem and constant boiler refills?
This is the chronology of the Livia's meltdown: First, the jittery needle on the pressure gauge, then the constant refilling and leaking, and finally the water running out the grouphead as soon as the power was switched on. If you recall, you walked me through replacing the pressurestat when it failed a month into the warranty back in June '05; the above-referenced meltdown occurred in July '07.
Not even gonna speculate as to what's wrong with the Magister; if the repair shop owner can't fix it while at my house, I will cut my losses, ask for my Livia back, and I guess bite the bullet and pay for shipping and repair costs to send it to you at Cafe West.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008, 3:13am Subject: Re: @#$%^&*(O Magister!!!
I'm a Livia owner myself (I paid $800 for mine about a month ago), and I'm also the service manager for my company. I would've handled it differently, but I'm not in your situation. I oversee several of our authorized service centers. If a customer ends up on the phone with me, I always tell them to ship their unit into us in Connecticut. I've got parts onhand that I wouldn't have to charge them for, where a service center has to charge full price because they need to pay us for the necessary parts. Also, it's the only way that "I" will know that the repair was done correctly. If there's a problem afterward, I'll eat the cost of having it shipped back to me to see if we missed something while we had it the first time in. $110 shipping (that's for shipping to and from Pasquini from the east coast) and the manufacturer doing the work, may have had a much different spin on this scenario. Have you contacted Pasquini to let them know about the repair shop's (that they recommended) inability to fix your 2 year old Livia? In warranty or out of warranty, Pasquini owes you a level of support just for owning their product. I really do hope that this story has a happy ending to it.
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