solidpuck Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Via Venezia Grinder: Rancilio Rocky Drip: Bunn Roaster: Colorado Coffee Merchants
Posted Sun Nov 25, 2007, 8:15am Subject: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
I am brand new to this and have absolutely TONS of information on forward surfing, reverse surfing, PID'ing , etc the Rancilio Silvia...anybody have timings, methodologies, etc. for temperature surfing the Saeco Via Venezia (Starbucks Barista)?
Thanks In Advance,
SolidPuck [thinking of changing my name to SpentPuck after all of the studying and learning there is to do!!!!!!!]
cv Senior Member Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 69 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Wega Mini EVD, SB Barista Grinder: Vario, Preciso, Rocky DL,... Drip: Capresso MT500+, De Longhi...
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2007, 7:04pm Subject: Re: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
I spent a little time a few weeks ago measuring brew water temps on my Barista using a styrofoam cup and thermometer. What I am doing now is a reverse temperature surf I think.
Before I'm ready to pull a shot I push the brew button and flush just enough water through an empty portafilter to turn off the ready light and then wait until it lights up again. My earlier measurements showed that the water temp coming through the brew head just as the light comes on was about 203-204degC. If I waited 30sec the temperature was 1-2 degrees cooler and if I waited a full minute the additional drop was another 1-2 degrees. I could bring the water temperature up to about 206 deg if I pushed the steam button for 20 seconds prior to pulling.
I seem to get the best taste using Black Cat coffee if I wait that minute and let the temperature drop but it does depend a bit on how long the machine has been warming up and how many shots I've pulled in the preceding few minutes before in that the more 'warmed' up the machine is the longer I need to wait. I assume each machine would be a bit different but it is worth checking the temps and adjusting accordingly as the exact timing would vary but I assume the relative temperature changes would be similar for most Barista machines. I wouldn't expect the intrashot temperatures would be that stable on this type of machine but I'm not really sure how to check that aspect. Hope this helps a bit.
solidpuck Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Via Venezia Grinder: Rancilio Rocky Drip: Bunn Roaster: Colorado Coffee Merchants
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2007, 9:17pm Subject: Re: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
cv:
Thanks for the response. It does help. I've read in various places about the styrofoam cup/thermometer method......do you cut the cup down so less volume is around the grouphead? What type of thermometer do you use? Only one I have is a Starbucks brand that came in a kit. How long of a blank shot do you pull into the cup? Basically, I guess I'm looking for details on how to setup this temperature rig ------
solidpuck Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Via Venezia Grinder: Rancilio Rocky Drip: Bunn Roaster: Colorado Coffee Merchants
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2007, 9:46am Subject: Re: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
After looking over in alt coffee and doing my own tests based solely on taste and appearance of crema, I have come up with the following temperature hack:
Let machine warm up for about 20 minutes.
Boiler light is probably green....in the off chance it isn't, wait for it to turn green. Pull a blank shot until a few seconds after green light turns off. Wipe group and portafilter dry. Pour and tamp coffee. By this time the light has come back on.
If I miss the light just coming on, I go ahead and pour another blank shot [this time without PF in place] to get the light off....I feel things need to be *exact*]....
With the light just coming on and a dry group, press the steam button and wait exactly 15 seconds. Depress steam and press brew.
Voila! A nice, sweet, mellow shot. I am using a 2 day old arabica espresso roast from local roaster. If I do NOT follow these steps, I find my crema is blonde and the shot tastes horrible. With this method, the crema is reddish brown and the shot is good.
I hope this tip helps other Barista/Via Venezia users; as I am sure there are ALOT of us!
Cheers,
SolidPuck
*disclaimer - each machine is different, but this method is very close if not identical to those posted in alt.coffee....so it should be close.
I_bean_good Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 63 Location: Bergen Park, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Railto (w/pid),... Grinder: Vario Drip: why not espress? Roaster: Behmore 1600
Posted Mon Dec 3, 2007, 11:36am Subject: Extreme temperature surf of the Starbucks Barista - 5 minute espresso
One of the characteristics of this machine is that it really doesn't have much mass and long warm-ups do little to improve shots. This is a double edged sword - it is impossible to really have a stable temperature throughout the duration of a shot but it warms up darn quick. While a careful procedure as described by Solidpuck will get the best results from it, I keep mine next to my Rancillio (which does require a long warmup) because it will pull a *reasonable* shot in less than 5 minutes from a dead-cold power-on! I'm sure the purists are gagging but for me, when I've got to grab-and-go, this is a great solution.
Turn on the machine with the steam temperature button on.
While it is heating, grind, fill and tamp the portofilter.
When the light comes on (abt. 3 1/2 min on my machine), the boiler is at steam temp, but the grouphead is cold. Turn off the steam button and start the pump to pull 1- 2 oz of water to warm your cup - stop when you hear the steam thermostat click on again.
Immediately attach the portofilter and pull your shot... not bad, not bad at all ;-)
Now, my machine is actually the old Saeco Rio Vapore, which preceded the Estro Vapore, which became the *$ Barista and ultimately the Via Venezia. It does have a more massive portofilter than the newer machines and that may affect your results and you may need to adjust this procedure.
Everything I know about coffee, I learned on coffeegeek
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 11:42am Subject: Re: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
Just wanted to re-visit this post. I am currently operating a *$ Barista with one of the new bottomless portafilters. I am really honing my skills, and have reached the point where I asked, "Okay, what is temperature surfing and how do I do it?" I think I know what it is, but I'm not sure how to go about testing my machine and getting the timing down so that I'm at least attempting to pull my shot at the right temp. Right now, as long as the green light is on, I pull my shot. =( So...
This post is old, but I would like to ask the question again: "Can anyone help me brew at the right temp on my Barista (aka Via Venezia)???" I don't have a temperature gauge and I'm not sure how/where one would be attached to my machine to allow me to "test" it. How much do they cost, and where do I get one? Can I do any of this with a regular cooking thermometer? What is this "styrofoam cup" test that was mentioned before?
I feel as though my espresso shots leave something to be desired. With my naked portafilter, I can get shots that have a lot of good characteristics, but I feel like my double-shots are too quickly becoming a rather light brown color. And I'm still not getting a very consistent shot. I have pulled a few that were beautiful and tasty, but can't seem to do that with any consistency at all. I am wondering if that could possibly be my temperature variations. Any help would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks!
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,225 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 12:32pm Subject: Re: Anyone temperature surf the Starbucks Barista aka Via Venezia?
If you want to see what you are doing then you can probably figure with a Polder digital thermometer(2) and styrofoam cup. Here is a link for the styrofoam cup method.
Look for how to #7 Brew Temperature. The post is a few years so digital thermometer was not shown, but is necessary. Cut the cup short and put the thermometer through the side. When you get ready to use, heat the cup and particularly the thermometer with boiling/near boiling water. The reason for that will become fairly obvious when you use it. The temperature of the brew water in the cup drops fairly quickly as you try to read it so preheating lets the thermometer read more quickly. Styrofoam is best for the cup because of the low thermal mass, paper can do in a pinch.
BB&B and you can use 20% off so cheap. Buy 2, so that you can take one apart. Many brands have the thermistor or wiring glued in so get the Polder.
For the second Polder, and surfing, this post. You take the thermometer apart. You may need to heat the steel probe to soften the plastic where it holds the probe. You can find a place to put the wire through the front or top and get the thermistor the boiler. Sometimes you can wedge it in a spot by an existing fasterer, or try high temperature foil tape, glue ...
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