caeffe Senior Member Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 271 Location: socal Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni... Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2007, 3:41pm Subject: HELP: my HX machine is alternating between steam and water out of the brew head
I posted this in a thread about my new NS Oscar but I thought i'd start a separate thread on this as it may be generic to more than just Oscar's.
I adjusted my Simonelli Oscar's Sirai P-stat last night after adjusting the brew head pressure. measures approx 18-19 psi so lets say 1.2 bar. turned off the machine
This morning i made 2 shots to check it - i thought the shot was still kinda sour but the bitter edge is gone ..... turned off the machine This evening turned it on again, let it warm up, opened up steam wand. measured 18-19 psi.
Prepared to make a shot and started flushing routine - i was getting major water dance out the brew head, eventually it was just steam then it would be a smooth stream of water, then steam, then gurgling water, then steam etc.....
What's going on? is the boiler temp adjusted too high? is my vibe pump shot? the pump is making a different noise - not as loud as before. It seems that the water is not coming out as much - so I checked with my DIY brew press gauge and it still reads >130 psi eventually.
sounds like the vibe pump to me.. no reason steam would come out unless there was so little water that the water woudl flash heat to steam in the HX tube (if you can get what i mean by that).. Make sure your pump is not leaking anywhere.. also turn your machine on from cold and see if you can pump out water..
other than that i will have to defer to the big guns
I posted this in a thread about my new NS Oscar but I thought i'd start a separate thread on this as it may be generic to more than just Oscar's.
Prepared to make a shot and started flushing routine - i was getting major water dance out the brew head, eventually it was just steam then it would be a smooth stream of water, then steam, then gurgling water, then steam etc.....
Sounds like air bubbles or pockets in the HX lines.
What's going on? is the boiler temp adjusted too high? is my vibe pump shot? the pump is making a different noise - not as loud as before. It seems that the water is not coming out as much - so I checked with my DIY brew press gauge and it still reads >130 psi eventually.
That's 8.84 bar, a little low I'd think as a static/stagnation (no flow) pressure should be 10 bar., & the resultant dynamic or running pressure would be approx 1 bar lower, or 9 bar.
caeffe Senior Member Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 271 Location: socal Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni... Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2007, 4:24pm Subject: Re: HELP:
mitchellb Said:
sounds like the vibe pump to me.. no reason steam would come out unless there was so little water that the water woudl flash heat to steam in the HX tube (if you can get what i mean by that)..
which is why i thought that maybe i had adusted the temp/pressure too high. but i don't think that's the case since the pressure out of the steam wand was less than 20 psig. although... i was using a 0-160 psig tire gauge so maybe at that low pressures the gauge is inaccurate
Make sure your pump is not leaking anywhere..
i don't see any leaks, at least not on the counter
also turn your machine on from cold and see if you can pump out water..
did that also, let the machine cool off and turned it on before it reheated. hardly any water came out - i was getting water, then hissing w/o water, then water, etc....
i was thinking i had to 'reprime' so i went ahead and turned off the machine, let it cool down, turned it back on, open the steam wand (obviously no steam at this point) and hit the brew button. same thing: water, hissing, water, hissing, etc...
CraigA Said:
Sounds like air bubbles or pockets in the HX lines.
so how do i get rid of these bubbles / air pockets? or rather, how did i get them?
CraigA Said:
That's 8.84 bar, a little low I'd think as a static/stagnation (no flow) pressure should be 10 bar., & the resultant dynamic or running pressure would be approx 1 bar lower, or 9 bar.
understood, i know i'll have to check it with flow but i bought wrong size fittings to make the gauge with a needle valve. i'll readjust to 10 bar (~145)
Sounds like an air leak somewhere maybe around the vibe pump IP/OP line/s. In the same vein as a car/truck intake manifold air leak..
understood, i know i'll have to check it with flow but i bought wrong size fittings to make the gauge with a needle valve. i'll readjust to 10 bar (~145)
Close enough & I don't want to split hairs or anything, but 1 bar is 14.7psi @ sea level., rounded off to 15psi.., so your pressure would be 147 - 150psi. {;-)
I'll have to check again. I'd expect to see a puddle under the machine if this was the case - and I do recall having to wipe the counter down a bit after all the adjusting I did. I attributed it to a leak on the OPV valve after I adjusted it (see my post: leak after OPV adjustment ) maybe one of the lines worked loose.
on the NS Oscar where is the vibe pump? I can't seem to locate it after pulling the top.
i'm already getting caffeine espresso withdrawal just thinking that i can't make any espresso shots .....
caeffe Senior Member Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 271 Location: socal Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni... Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2007, 10:43pm Subject: Re: HELP:
well, i tried it again this afternoon
thought i'd measure the pressure again. it looks like the pump only puts out 20-30 psig now .... i get water coming out when its started from cold but its very low volume
once the machine warms up i get the steam, water
also, the pump is not as loud anymore, almost sounds like its just the autofill pump only
also no leaks .... there is no water under the machine
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2007, 10:56pm Subject: Re: Help:
CraigA Said:
That's 8.84 bar, a little low I'd think as a static/stagnation (no flow) pressure should be 10 bar., & the resultant dynamic or running pressure would be approx 1 bar lower, or 9 bar.
I think this is really a matter of personal preference. On my Anita I run with a stagnate pressure of 7.75 bar on my dial. The espresso is damn good. Adjust the pressure until the espresso tastes good, I wouldn't put too much stock in dials and numbers.
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2007, 11:30pm Subject: Re: HELP: my HX machine is alternating between steam and water out of the brew
open the machine up.. when i was using a pressure gauge without a needle valve i sprung a leak in the pump that was dripping on to my boiler and flash evaporating.
You might just need a new pump, not the worst thing you could do to your machine. It just puts a lot of back pressure ony nour pump when you are running it for 7-8 seconds with no outflow but teh opv
On my Anita I run with a stagnate pressure of 7.75 bar on my dial. The espresso is damn good.
Ok, that'd be approx 6.75 bar/99psi then. Conventional wisdom says brew pressure should be 9 bar/132psi, but hey., if it work for you that's great!
Adjust the pressure until the espresso tastes good, I wouldn't put too much stock in dials and numbers.
Hmmm.., well the manufacturer does put them there for a good reason.. & it's good to adjust & have control of the variables when using different espresso blends. I can think of 2 different blends I use with completely different brewing parameters!
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