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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Zaffiro...  
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cpl593h
Senior Member
cpl593h
Joined: 6 Apr 2005
Posts: 660
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Dec 15, 2005, 3:11pm
Subject: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

My Isomac Zaffiro will be in transit shortly. It's not even in my hands and I'm thinking about what I'm going to do to it already. The prospects of PIDing it are really nice, but it's not going to be something I want to do right away due to the time constraints of moving into a new school in January. Not only that, but from what I have read so far, the Zaffiro is stable enough to begin with. The thermostat issues that plague Zaffiros and Amicas is something that I don't want to worry about, although so far it hasn't been a problem for the original owner of the machine. I would also like a little more ease of temp adjustment for tweaking individual blends.

Chris Coffee has THIS thermostat for the Zaffiro. It looks likes it's easily adjustable, though I'm not really sure how the deadband compares to the stock thermostat. Since the machine isn't in my presence yet, I can't open the thing up to familiarize myself with its anatomy and figure out for myself how easy it will be to replace the thermostat.

I know that the Zaffiro has a thermowell where the thermostat resides, my guess is that it's at the top of the boiler. How easy is it to get into the thermowell, and is this operation in general something that a handy, technically inclined coffeegeek can manage himself?
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cai
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 196
Location: il
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: zaffiro
Grinder: mazzer mini
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: chemex, Krups Moka
Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005, 12:19am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

Greetings,

The thermostat is not that accessable. The stainless steel cover has to be removed to gain access to the thermostat. If you plan on changing blends often, you are going to waste alot of time changing the setting.

Cliff Isackson
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cpl593h
Senior Member
cpl593h
Joined: 6 Apr 2005
Posts: 660
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005, 12:30am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

I'm aware of its location. That doesn't bother me so much. For the first week of having my Cremina, I just left the cover off. I'm just concerned about the actual installation of the tstat - after that, the adjustment of it doesn't phase me too much.
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GaryH
Senior Member
GaryH
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2,530
Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
Vac Pot: none
Drip: yes
Roaster: none
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005, 1:50am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

cai Said:

Greetings,

The thermostat is not that accessable. The stainless steel cover has to be removed to gain access to the thermostat. If you plan on changing blends often, you are going to waste alot of time changing the setting.

Cliff Isackson

Posted December 16, 2005 link

Here is how I solved that problem on my Zaffiro. It's an ugly hole but since its on the side I don't see it when pulling shots. Removing the cover just takes too much time.

GaryH: CIMG0005.JPG
(Click for larger image)
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GaryH
Senior Member
GaryH
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2,530
Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
Vac Pot: none
Drip: yes
Roaster: none
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005, 2:42am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

cpl593h Said:

My Isomac Zaffiro will be in transit shortly. It's not even in my hands and I'm thinking about what I'm going to do to it already. The prospects of PIDing it are really nice, but it's not going to be something I want to do right away due to the time constraints of moving into a new school in January. Not only that, but from what I have read so far, the Zaffiro is stable enough to begin with. The thermostat issues that plague Zaffiros and Amicas is something that I don't want to worry about, although so far it hasn't been a problem for the original owner of the machine. I would also like a little more ease of temp adjustment for tweaking individual blends.

Posted December 15, 2005 link

I've had my Zaffiro for almost two years. I've attached a k-type thermocouple to the boiler and a drilled a 4mm deep hole into the E61 brass so I can monitor the group temperature. Other coffee geeks measure the temperature of the water inside the group. I measure the temperature of the E61 brass and temp surf both the boiler and E61 brass.

This graph shows that the brew water temperature varies about 7C (14F) within the boiler cycle due to the large thermostat deadband. To make things worse the thermostat does not turn off at the same boiler temperature each time and that also affects the E61 group temperature. When the Zaffiro is idle the group is at a lower temperature and the group heats up when pulling more shots. Pulling water to get the thermostat to turn on also affects the E61 group temperature depending on where you are in the boiler cycle.

I haven't PIDed my Zaffiro because I don't have the skills to do it. But I introduced a guy at work to coffeegeek who just spend $1100 on a Silvia, Mazzer Mini and PID parts. I'm asking him to help me with my Zaffiro. The PID does not fix all the E61 group temperature issues.

GaryH: ZaffirobrewC.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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handcannon
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Jun 2003
Posts: 237
Location: Ames, IA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PIDed Zaffiro
Grinder: MCI, Innova, Zass, Capresso
Drip: Capresso Aroma Classic 461
Roaster: Modded FR & WBs
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2005, 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

PIDing my Zaf definitely improved my shots by a large amount, as well as letting me dial in the best temp for a particular blend/roast.  If you can use a screwdriver and a soldering iron (optional, if you trust wire nuts), then you posess all the skills needed.





Wayne

 
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."  A. Brilliant
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DanLicks
Senior Member
DanLicks
Joined: 9 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Vienna, Austria
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Zaffiro
Grinder: Solis 166 (tweaked)
Drip: NEVER!
Posted Sat Dec 17, 2005, 11:11am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

The Prodogy tstat is just as crappy as the "old" ones. Mine worked more or mostly less OK for about a year, then it started acting funny, and now it is........! PID is cool, but IMO, overkill. Here is an alternitive I posted on a different thread:


The MINCO CT325 controler is not a PID but just a very quick hard on/off solid state switch with a +/-0.5C deadband. The Zaffiro normally heats for 30 to 45 seconds and cools down for maybe 5 minutes. Thus the huge temperature fluctuation. With the MINCO installed it turns on only for a few seconds every twenty seconds or so keeping it within the (MAX!) +/- 0.5C in the boiler, which translates to roughly +/-0.25 in the brewing head due to its buffering effect. The sensor should be mounted as near to the heating element as possible for quick reaction. (I will mount mine on an aluminum 6mm halfround piece inside the boiler temperature well.) If the controler is mounted in the area of the normal t-stat, it is easilly adjustable through the vent slits with a small screwdriver. My friend connected a small digital voltmeter over the holes for the pump switch and light, (who needs them? If you need the pump you can hit the switch under the E61 lever with your thumb.) so he can see exactly what the temperature is at the sensor. There are two leads on the MINCO for that purpose where the V readout = the temperature. Also it is a good idea to insulate the boiler and pipes.
So all you need then is to determine the actual brewing temp and set the boiler temp accordingly. I think my friend has his set at 104C for 94C in the brewing head. When I get mine done I will send some more exact info.
(I measure the temp inside the E61 with a small electronic thermometer with a 3.5mm stick. I replaced the Allen screw in the center of the head with a longer one out of aluminum that is drilled out 3.5mm, (not all the way through!). Fits right in and responds quickly within 1/10C. )

I find the MINCO a much cleaner solution than a PID. I don't like the idea of a box hanging on the outside of the machine. Building a 1/16 DIN PID on the inside would be possible, but difficult. It would only fit bottom left, an odd position, and it would NOT be easy to chew through the stainless steel front plate and frame. It would take a pretty hightech set of tastebuds to tell any difference between a Zaff with a MINCO inside and one with a PID. The controler, sensor, and SSR from MINCO cost $125, less than the FUJI PID alone. Here are the parts:
CT325PD1C1 Controler
S1762PDz12B Sensor
AC746 SSR (50A. 25 is enough, but a 50 generates less heat)
Dan
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DanLicks
Senior Member
DanLicks
Joined: 9 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Vienna, Austria
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Zaffiro
Grinder: Solis 166 (tweaked)
Drip: NEVER!
Posted Sun Dec 18, 2005, 10:09am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

GaryH Said:

Here is how I solved that problem on my Zaffiro. It's an ugly hole but since its on the side I don't see it when pulling shots. Removing the cover just takes too much time.

Posted December 16, 2005 link

If the tstat has a knob on it it can be tweeked through the slits in the top with a thin screwdriver. You are right, that hole IS ugly! ;)
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DanLicks
Senior Member
DanLicks
Joined: 9 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Vienna, Austria
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Zaffiro
Grinder: Solis 166 (tweaked)
Drip: NEVER!
Posted Sun Dec 18, 2005, 10:13am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

Chris Coffee has THIS thermostat for the Zaffiro. It looks likes it's easily adjustable, though I'm not really sure how the deadband compares to the stock thermostat.

The Prodogy IS the stock thermostat. Just as crappy as the oloder ones. Maybe it lasts longer, (MAYBE!) but it isn't any better suited for an otherwise high quality machine. 8C deadband sucks!
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cpl593h
Senior Member
cpl593h
Joined: 6 Apr 2005
Posts: 660
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun Dec 18, 2005, 10:41am
Subject: Re: Zaffiro thermostat upgrade
 

Thanks for all the info, guys. I went ahead and ordered a PID from coldfusionx on ebay. I might as well take the plunge and do it while I'm out of school and work right now.
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