Posted Thu Dec 9, 2004, 2:54am Subject: Re: Some extraordinary results by reverse temperature surfing
G'day Ian,
My "rapporto prove" (safety test report) that came with my Silvia dates the test at 12th Jan 2004... (at 5.49pm and 17 seconds according to certificate) I purchased it (took delivery) July 2004.
Weird Science this Rancilio thermostat technology ... volts listed at 230 for Oz.
#--> I recommend Eric Svendson's adapter and thermometer for E61s (also Silvia) : easy surfing! # My photo albums have moved to http://picasaweb.google.com/krislema2
jvande Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Acton, MA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancillio Silvia Grinder: Solus Maestro Vac Pot: (not in use) Roaster: Hearthware (not in use)
Posted Sun Mar 5, 2006, 2:20pm Subject: Re: Some extraordinary results by reverse temperature surfing
Purchased a Silvia from WLL in December, 2005. Can't be sure it's 100C (vs a 110C) machine. Is there a way to tell?
Mis-read the (normal) temperature surfing directions and accidentally timed starting from light out instead of light on. Here's what I found while reverse temperature surfing:
Terrior: La Lapa, Decaf, "Espresso" (North Italian Roast) From light OFF: 45 seconds: Severely bitter, undrinkable, repeatable result 48 seconds: Bitter, drinkable, not great 50 seconds: Good complex taste, touch of bitterness, great brew, highly repeatable result 55 seconds: Flat, tastless, like drinking silty water, repeatable result
What was shocking to me was that the precision of the timing had to be so exact! Next I re-read the temperature surfing instructions and using FORWARD surfing (timing from light on):
From light ON: 20 seconds: undrinkable 30 seconds: ok, not great 40 seconds: ok 50 seconds: ok
So I went back to REVERSE temperature surfing with a NEW batch of the La Lapa and some range adjustments to my Solis Maestro (discontinued).
From light OFF: 45 seconds: great 50 seconds: great 55 seconds: not ok
Note that both the batch of coffee and the grinder settings changed between the first and third (both reverse surf) results.
I'm now a dedicated reverse temperature surfer. If I knew in December what my forward surfing results would be, I never would have bought the machine. Reverse surfing results are the only results I have that justify my purchase.
Posted Sun Mar 5, 2006, 2:35pm Subject: Re: Some extraordinary results by reverse temperature surfing
Since attaching the thermocouple end of a standard, $20 digital kitchen temperature meter onto the top of my Silvia's boiler it became clear how wide her temperature band is. From the bottom it's about 188F to boiler element on and at the top it's about 230F to boiler element off. Crazy.
On the upswing the temperature rises very fast and it's very difficult to hit 201F . Absolutely, reverse surfing ended up giving me the ability to hit 201F consistently. I haven't timed the drop down but 2 minutes sounds about right.
Bleeding water and steam pressure off the top of the boiler makes the boiler temp drop a little faster so it helps with puylling a shot sooner. One good thing about the Silvia's design is the grouphead attached right to the top of the boiler. I find once the gh's thoroughly heated the resulting temperature stability makes for good shots.
Philosopher Senior Member Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Australia Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Rocky
Posted Sun Mar 25, 2007, 7:21pm Subject: Re: Some extraordinary results by reverse temperature surfing
So with temp surfing you pull as the machine is warming up (which is efficient but less accurate) and reverse surfing you pull as the machine is colling down (which is accurate but less efficient)
How about doing accelerating the reverse surf by a short flush to mix some cold water into the overheated boiler? Isn't that the method people use to cool a HX?
You could plot the intrashot temperature stability from say a :
ground_coffee Senior Member Joined: 10 Sep 2007 Posts: 30 Location: London, UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Nov 3, 2007, 10:36am Subject: Re: Some extraordinary results by reverse temperature surfing
i have been using the temp surf method as shown by Mark Prince on youtube. (search rancilio silvia and you'll see what I am referring to).
so, i turn on the machine, 20 or so mins later, i run water through the portafilter. til the light comes on. wait til light goes off and run more water through til light comes back on. remove portafilter, grind, dose, tamp. by which time the light will have turned off again. as per mark's video, i turn on the water (portafilter not attached) til the steaming noise goes away. attach portafilter and then brew. some shots are okay. most are nasty. which i then mask with steamed milk cos i am a latte drinker for the most part.
would you guys suggest that i allow the light to go off and then brew exactly 2 mins later? or 3 mins? or what? my fear is that i will get a burnt shot cos the whole point of running water through without the PF is that the really hot water goes away. but then the shots i get using the method in paragraph 2 are mostly nasty anyway so i definitely need to change something.
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