Posted Sun Apr 27, 2003, 10:18am Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
A few things to consider....
1) The volume of water must be matched to the amount of grounds, the fineness of them and the tamp pressure. The amount of time the water passes through the grounds is also critical. This is not just an opinion based on my taste or that of anyone else in the forums. It has actually been quantified through extensive research by espresso pioneers such as Dr. Illy (can't wait to see Mark Prince's interview with him!). An improper balance of any of these variables will result in underextraction or overextraction and lousy taste.
2) Recognizing that espresso portafilter baskets, even on high end and large commercial machines, are limited to perhaps 18-20 grams of grounds (La Marzocco triple basket), one has limitations on the amount of fluid possible if a good drink is desired.
Still want 12 oz of espresso? Here are options -
A 12 oz cafe Americano, consisting of TWO double ristretto shots and enough hot water added to equal 12 oz liquid
Two Cafe Crema's, each pulled separately and made by using a coarser grind and/or lighter tamp to yield about 6 oz liquid after a pull not to exceed 30 seconds (again.... the magic 30 second limit imposes itself). Pour them into a 12 oz cup - wow.... that sounds so good I may have to make one myself when I get home!
Six double shots of espresso, each pulled separately. I would use a la Marzocco triple basket with about 20 grams per basket and try to pull 2 oz double ristretto's at about 25 seconds for each pull. My typical ristretto's at home are 1 1/2 oz each but I only use 17 grams of coffee. Six double ristretto's? Even my chronic habit has not yet gotten me to that caffeine intake level but have fun if you do it!
Hi David! Not to be funny, but I remember this discussion on alt.coffee & did a Google search. Check out this 1qt,32oz portafilter!! {:-D Man,that's only double what you're looking for! here. {:-O It's the 4th item down.Here's the alt.coffee thread here. Cheers!
Posted Sun Apr 27, 2003, 11:12am Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
Great thread Craig - thanks for digging that up! That is one really scary looking portafilter and it's evident that extraction time once again becomes a concern. Typical high end home machines have only a 1 liter to 2 liter boiler and push four ounces of liquid through a totally unrestricted portafilter in 30 seconds (unrestricted meaning no coffee grounds in the filter to slow down the flow of water).
It's indicated in the thread that the recommended use is as a base for espresso drinks (e.g. the ever popular frozen drinks such as Frappucino). Starbucks actually uses Italian Roast coffee brewed extra strong as the base for their Frappucino's. When I make frozen coffee drinks at home I use dar roast coffee brewed very strong and then add espresso to beef it up. I also make some espresso ice cubes to add punch to the final drink.
if cold drinks are the target, the Toddy extractors may be a good alternate choice for any of the above methods.
Posted Sun Apr 27, 2003, 12:30pm Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
Owen,
No problem. The water debit on my Silvia is 125ml(4.4oz),(boiler volume is 10.5oz) in 10 secs unrestricted.For a 1 1/2oz shot,extrapolating the numbers, that would be approx 1/3rd of the water debit. For the 32oz shot volume that would be 21.3 times the 1 1/2 oz Silvia shot. 21.3 times 4.4oz = 93.72oz for a water debit.The boiler volume working on Silvia's ratio would then have to be 2.4 times the water debit to equal a boiler volume of 225oz,1.76 gals.Looking at the size of that monster portafilter,I was thinking more along the size of when you look at a 5 gal hot water tank!, Haha!!
P.S. Working on 17-18 grams for the LaMarzocco ridged basket for the 1.5/2oz shot, that portafilter would take 362-383 grams,12.7oz-13.5oz of coffee, a little over 3/4lb!! Yikes!!!
Posted Sun Apr 27, 2003, 4:42pm Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
Staggering numbers indeed. Interesting is how wide the variance is between unrestricted water flow on an Isomac compared to the SilviaAt full throttle my Tea delivers 4 oz of water in 30 seconds after the lever is pulled (this is the correct amount for that machine).
At 3/4 pound per shot I sure woudn't want to pull a bad shot!
E61 Senior Member Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 63 Location: Copenhagen Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Faema E61 Grinder: Rossi RR45, Innova Drip: Just french press Roaster: HotTop/HWP
Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003, 10:32am Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
Well, let this be my first post on this amazing forum.
I just received my used E61 (the original version) from a closed down french bar. It seem to be pretty much in original condition, with one peculiar change.
One of the 2 groupheads is oversized! Yes we are not talking 58 mm. here, more in the line 116 mm.
The portafilter is just huge and has 2 holes each fitted with a double sprout. The basket is a "single" basket which should make 4 espressos and with a "double basket it should be able to produce 8 espressos! and therefore close to 24oz!
So the answer must be that there are machines out there who can produce large espressos
Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003, 10:47am Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
E61 Said:
One of the 2 groupheads is oversized! Yes we are not talking 58 mm. here, more in the line 116 mm...The basket is a "single" basket which should make 4 espressos...
Hi Poul... Let's redo the math. If it holds 4X a single, it would be a double double, and wouldn't that total 3-4 oz of espresso total (a double is 1.5-2 ounces total). Is it the depth of the basket that prompted you to call it a 'single basket?'
I'd be interested in what you discover about your rare purchase!! Sounds adventurous.
Posted Mon Apr 28, 2003, 11:59am Subject: Re: Q: Are there any machines that can make a 12 oz. shot? ...
I've got one of these funky portafilters that fits La Pavoni. I got it from a friend's spare parts collection who was more than willing to give it to me.
The official word from the factory is that it is designed to produce 7OZ of espresso. It looks quite similar to the one pictured above.
It's results are marginal at best, but if you are using it to to make 20OZ carmel lattes, or drinks that you know the coffee will not be tasted in anyway, what the hell!
I prewarmed it by hooking it up to the group, and running water through it for about a minute, then drying, and packing it with a somewhat more coarse grind, then doing about a ten second preinfuse before dosing 6 marginal shots, and one bad one.
Still, it's fun to play with, and it's a great conversation piece.
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