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NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > NS Ellimatic...  
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jonr
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 260
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 9:07am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

> Good to see that the absolute vs gauge pressure confusion got to more people than just me!  

Good practice would be to always specify gauge or absolute.  As with temperature - 100C or 100F;  100 degrees is a recipe for confusion.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,479
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 1:04pm
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

Unit of measurement should always be used to avoid that issue, even then it is possible to , uh , mess up, don't ask how I know LOL!
The part may be able to be repaied with silver soldering or brazing if a replacement can not be found. Just stay lead free on the repair.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:40am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

Hello all,

Apologies for my prolonged silence - it took a while for me to find time to disassemble the machine again.  Good news is that the problem has indeed been identified, and Wayne, you were right.  :)  See attached pic, right hand side near the top where I cleaned it a bit.  We really struggled to get the HX removed first time, and somewhere a spanner must have slipped and caused that nick.  My guess is that it only opens when there's some heat applied, and pressure is high enough.  

So, two questions:  
I know brazing would probably be best, but how about plumbing solder (rated lead free - 97% tin 3% copper and 0.005% lead according to the datasheet).  Reason being - that I can do myself, brazing kit I don't have.  It'll literally be heating it up and flowing a minor amount of solder.  It probably won't go into the pipe, but it will fill the tiny gap and form a layer over it.  It is, however, in my boiler...can that be a problem?  It's rated on a melting point of 230 degrees C (446 deg F) according to the datasheet.

Secondly - there's a slight blackness inside the boiler.  Now this thing was cleaned to shiny copper when I built it, and I've got a vacuum breaker fitted, so where does the black come from?  It's almost like a soot layer, really not much, rubbing over it with a cloth removes it.  Since reassembling the unit I have rinsed the boiler once or twice, but that's it - no descaling or similar.  I've been pretty religious about clieaning the steam wand after steaming, first with water and then with a cloth, so I'm pretty sure it's not milk finding its way in there.

That's it, hoping to have my baby running (properly for the first time) soon!  :)

Jan

jannus: Bellville-20131110-00668.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 845
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013, 8:32am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

Food-safe silver solder. Don't mess about with anything else. The higher the temperature, the more stuff leaches out, so any lead content at all should be avoided. I know it's a tiny amount, and you're not going to be making espressos for an infant, but still, if you can do it safer, there's no good reason not to. Silver solder is also a stronger bond, I believe, and wicks better into tiny cracks.
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jonr
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Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 260
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013, 8:43am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

Adding 3.5 or 4% silver to the solder will be about 50% stronger and actually melts at a lower temperature.  Worse case, it fails again and then you get it brazed (with copper + silver, no tin) for far more strength.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,479
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013, 3:19pm
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

The problem with solder first the try braise is that the solder will contaminate the braze. Welding 101.
A lot of what is sold as SILVER solder has no silver in it at all.

A food safe plumbing solder could be used, the spot is small, just clean well and you should be OK.

Brazing is best followed by a real silver solder closely followed with non toxic plumbing solder.

I'm glad you found the issue, sorry it took disassembling the machine again to find and now repair.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Wed Nov 13, 2013, 12:45am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

With a stroke of luck my younger brother is visiting tomorrow, and he has the skills and the tools for brazing.  I'll just hold out a bit, and sort it properly with his help.  :)

Thanks for all the tips.  I understand the caution, and I get the idea that the biggest concern all around is the fact that the repair is inside the boiler, and will be in contact with boiling water and steam that will be consumed.  I get the idea that repairs outside the boiler with plumbing solder will not be that much of a concern.  For what it's worth, I did phone the manufacturer, and they did assure me that the solder is rated food-safe.  I suspect the 0.005% lead content is something that has to be included in the datasheet to play it safe from their side.

Nonetheless, I see an Oxy-Acet kit in my future....

Any comments on the slight black I found inside the boiler?  Nothing to be too concerned about I gather?

Jan
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,479
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 13, 2013, 3:17pm
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

I would not give it a second thought. It is just oxidation on the brass and once it forms, it is a pretty stable layer. You can find it on the inside of well worn PFs that have had the chrome wore away, some even find (I know I do) that clean brass can impart a taste to the water/brew that goes away when the oxidation forms. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 62
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Thu Nov 14, 2013, 7:28am
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

Ah, thanks Wayne.  Right, so I'll rinse it out and not worry too much.  I gather that it forms on brass and or copper, as this is inside the boiler where there's no brass?

With a stroke of bad luck, my brazing options have effectively been reduced to zero.  Will see if I can find an alternative, otherwise it'll be the plumbing solder.
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jonr
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 260
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Thu Nov 14, 2013, 8:13pm
Subject: Re: NS Ellimatic temperature way too high.... :(
 

You can use Mapp gas (no oxygen) to braze copper.
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