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Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
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ytsemaddy
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Joined: 4 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Chicagoland
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Nov 4, 2013, 1:33pm
Subject: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Hi folks,

New to the forum, new to espresso. My husband does home roasting and we're thinking about starting a business eventually, so we managed to pick up a NS Mac 2000 V from a restaurant that was closing for a (hopefully) great price. From what I can tell, the machine was not regularly serviced, as I asked if they had a recommended service person, and they said "No, we've never had any trouble with it." I suspect they made < 20 shots a week.

That said, I'm not even hooking it up until I've done a cursory cleaning and check. I'm ordering Cafiza, Dezcal, a brush tool, and a blind filter insert; and I'm also going to order a full set of new gaskets and o-rings. It went straight from the restaurant to my garage, so I have no concerns that it's been in freezing conditions that would cause any burst lines / boilers. It also came with a separate softener tank, which I have yet to be able to pry open, but once I can I'll be on the hunt for the proper salt to repack it with.

Apart from the requisite collection of clean rags and elbow grease, am I missing anything that I might need to at least clean it up and give it a test run? Anyone have "this may not seem like an obvious thing" caveats? I've been reading forums and watching YouTube videos about cleaning machines, etc. I've printed off the schematics and parts diagrams from the NS site.

I'm hoping this thing won't need major surgery, but I won't feel comfortable getting it filled and under pressure until I've done a basic once-over.

Thanks!
-Maddy
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OregonCityMan
Senior Member
OregonCityMan
Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Portland, Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Salvatore SES Semi
Grinder: Ascaso I-2 mini
Roaster: Torrefattore 1KG, DIY 1/2lb
Posted Mon Nov 4, 2013, 9:05pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Wow. New to espresso and you pick up a commercial machine. You go girl. Check out this video on You Tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCcegbsD-U

Seattle coffee gear can be a valuable source f information, she puts out tons of video.

GL
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 8:47am
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Maddy, welcome to the board!

You don't say how many groups are on that machine.
If you were able to test it, in place to know it works, a single group machine, at auction may be $600, if you cant test it, about 2/3 that, if known problems, about $150

Two and three group machines often go for less as they are less home friendly. I have seen a 4 group double boiler L.M. go for $400 and it came from a place that takes care of it's equipment, Disneyland.

You are going to need a quality grinder for that machine, and in a business, the Swift is a good way to go, it has ceramic burrs, auto doses and auto tamps all in one push of a button, it is staff proof, well as staff proof as possible.





OregonCityMan Said:

Seattle coffee gear can be a valuable source f information, she puts out tons of video.

GL

Posted November 4, 2013 link

Yes and it is sales pitch, not cutting edge information on great espresso. They are cute to watch but little useful information can be learned. Dont get me wrong, I like SCG as a company and often send people there but the videos are aimed at selling not teaching.

I did not go to your link so IDK about it.

GET THAT MACHINE OUT OF FREEZING CONDITIONS IN AN UNHEATED GARAGE YESTERDAY, NOT THIS AFTERNOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very serious damage can happen very quickly to a machine that is not winterized for storage when it freezes, sometimes to the point of scrapping the machine!!!!

There is no need to wait for all the stuff to get to you, it will not affect operation one way or the other, taste, yes but that is not what you are looking for. Plug it in and hook up the water and turn it on, you have no idea what any problems may or may not be until it is hot and ready to work, a cleaning will only make you feel good, it will not help the machine nor hinder it in any way.

Salt is salt, water softener salt from the big box store at 25 pounds for $3 is just fine.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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ytsemaddy
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Chicagoland
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:40pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Thanks a lot, Wayne! Sorry I forgot to specify, it is a single group, and the initial purpose is for us to learn how to properly pull shots, and then to help dial in our espresso roasts for beans. If we get to the point of a cafe business, above and beyond making samples for people to try before buying beans, then we'd definitely invest in something larger. My husband's been drooling over some of the La Marzocco machines that are in local coffee shops, but those are a little too spendy in this early phase.

I paid $500 for the NS, so provided it doesn't need major components replaced, it sounds like I paid a fair price for it.  The grinder is definitely next on the agenda. We've got a Capresso for home pour-overs in the morning, but we're dubious it's going to give us a decent espresso grind. I'll look into the Swift; thanks for the recommendation!

My garage barely gets below 50 degrees, even in the subzero Chicago winters (the other half keeps his homebrew out there), but I'm planning to get the machine cleaned up and tested in the next week or so at any rate. I was hesitant to start it up in case there were any deposits that got shaken loose while transporting it from the restaurant to my house, in case they could clog the lines and cause damage. If that generally doesn't happen, then I can figure out a way to temporarily hook up a water line and do a quick test. We have an idea of where we want the machine's permanent home to be, but that's going to require a visit from the plumber. Does the water line need to be pressurized, or is it something where I could do a quick & dirty test by feeding the water input line into a full 5 gallon carboy?

I'm glad to know that softener salt works. I suspected it would, but of course the Italian directions specify sea salt and I was a tad worried that I was about to buy a lot of expensive fancy salt. :)

Thanks again!
-Maddy
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ytsemaddy
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Chicagoland
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Also, if I had seen a LM machine from Disneyland for that cheap, I would have driven cross-country to get it, squeeing all the way. I'm a huge Disney fan, and the other half is a LM fan, so it would be a no-brainer! :)
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moosepucky
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moosepucky
Joined: 6 Jun 2009
Posts: 155
Location: USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Grinder: Super Jolly - Forte BG -...
Vac Pot: Cona - Santos
Drip: Bodum - Chemex - Hario -...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828-B
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 5:36pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

If it was hooked up to a softener and used as little as you say you should be A-OK.  Pull the covers and look at the fittings for any staining (white, blue, crust, anything other than brass and copper).  Look at the portafilter for faint white staining.  These are signs of calcification.  Granted you can't see inside unless you disassemble but if you do not see signs externally you should do a happy dance and high five as you may be sitting pretty.

Hook it up to a water source and power it up.  Make sure the pump runs and open the hot water valve until you get a good flow. Then open the steam wand as you will need to "burp" it to get the air out.  You don't want to run the pump for an extended period of time so if it does not shut off within 2 min, power down, let it rest then start it again.

First step is to test function.  Then you can determine what needs to be serviced
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 5:53pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Maddy,

I forgot to welcome you!

You did OK on the price, esp if all it needs is a cleanup. I paid the same for my LA CimballiM32 at auction, it had a bad computer board and as the board lists for over $1K it will remain broken. Fortunately it controlled the  "nice to have" features such as the built in timer and some troubleshooting functions, the operational stuff works just fine. This was bought at a restaurant equipment auction house, the same place as the Disney machine. Check out the M32 here.

"Someone, stop me please!    Now also M32 rehab  AND NOW ALSO WITH PICS!"

The swift is really a grinder for a shop, they are very $pendy but in a busy shop they are nice to have..

You picked up a great machine for the home, way overkill but what fun is it if you can't have a little fun?:-)

I doubt there will be many problems but the until you turn it on it is all guess work.

You can run i t on a water bottle, many here do. We tend to use a pump on the bottle but to a quick test, just put the bottle on the counter with the machine, the rotary pump should suck the water from a lower place but there is no need to push your luck so to speak. I think I have pics of the bottle on the workbench.

My home setup is fed from a refer ice maker line and I drain into a bottle, I have been doing it for years.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

That machine has a vacuum breaker so there is no need to burp the air out, some machines won't let you turn on the hot water on until the boiler is up to temp, my M32 for example.

If the machine was still connected when you bought it, the boiler should be full. A bit on the stale side of water perhaps but unless you or the seller drained it, you should be fine
:-) :-) :-)

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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skydragondave
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 168
Location: Ontario, Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Commercial Only
Grinder: Commercial Only
Roaster: Has Garanti HG5
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

Hi Maddy,
I'm a professional espresso machine technician and having refurbished your model of machine in the past, I do have some thoughts I'd like to share.
Firstly, with great respect to Wayne, the Swift grinder is on sale at SCG for $4800 right now and the Simonelli portafilter will not fit. I have seen a few Swift grinders in the field, but they are meant for a Marzocco machine in a very high-volume shop (the latest I worked on was paired with a GB5 4-group machine) If you are really on the ball you might be able to pull 100 shots an hour on your single-group MAC so a Mazzer MINI should be more than adequate. The highest-grade grinder I would recommend to you would be the MINI "E" which is an electronic grind-on-demand version of the standard MINI.
$500 on a private sale is far less than most unsuspecting people can pay for a MAC machine, so you did fairly well on the price. However, your description of the sellers' attitude toward maintenance and your comment about having to "pry" open the softener tank leads me to believe the softener tank was not being regenerated on a regular basis. I advise my customers that a standard 8L tank is good for softening about 370 gallons of water before regeneration is required. However, given the cost of a 2lb box of coarse grain salt (usually less than $1) and varying water quality in customer locations I advise regenerating the tank at least once a month. The capacity between regeneration will drop the harder your incoming water is, so it is a good idea to test the carbonate hardness of your water and adjust your regeneration schedule to compensate. You also need a whole-house filter to remove particulates from the water so the resin bed inside the tank isn't contaminated.
I recommend coarse grain sea salt or pickling salt as opposed to rock salt for the simple reason that it is food-grade. I do not trust salt meant for scattering on driveways. I also do not recommend regular water softener pellets because the large pellets take forever to dissolve. Regular table salt, on the other hand, dissolves too quickly for the regeneration reaction to take place. Properly flushing a softener tank, if the outlet restrictor is still present and you are using salt granules of the proper size, should take about 40 minutes. It should be a very thin stream coming out of the restrictor.
Of course, if the softener is not maintained you will very soon have completely untreated water entering your espresso machine. Scale is an insulator which prevents heat transfer, and scale particles will accumulate in orifices and valves and eventually cause your machine to stop working. Removing it is a time-consuming and expensive process. If your machine is scaled up badly, you will never be able to pull a good shot with it because the brew temperature will drop during extraction, resulting in a sour cup. If it's not too bad sometimes you can updose to compensate. But a really bad machine just won't perform and there's no point trying to learn on it.
Your first order of business when evaluating this machine is to indeed hook it up and run it. Your machine is 110V 1500W, so you are okay plugging it into a regular 15A branch circuit as long as there are no other loads on at the time. You'll need a supply hose with 3/8 compression on one side and 3/8 BSPP on the other side, and it's possible that hose may have been included in the sale. You can just unhook the cold water supply to the kitchen sink for testing purposes. If the boiler's empty, unhook one of the wires running to the high-limit thermostat to keep the element off until it's submerged in water. Open the steam valve and power it up to verify the autofill works correctly. The pump will come on and fill the boiler, then shut off. Check the sight glass, water should be near the top. If it continues to run beyond filling the sight glass completely, shut it down as the autofill is defective. If it works as normal, shut it off, plug the heating element wire back in and power up again. Watch the boiler gauge climb as the unit heats up. If the vacuum breaker isn't stuck and the boiler isn't hopelessly scaled, this should take about 20 mins. You'll hear the vacuum breaker hiss, then pop as it closes when the water comes to a boil. The boiler pressure should stop anywhere from 1BAR to 1.5BAR; if it climbs beyond this, shut it down as the pressurestat is defective. If all goes well, check the operation of your volumetric buttons. Volumes are programmable and vary from customer to customer, but I program doses at 1oz for single short, 1.5oz for single long, 2 for double short and 3 for double long. If it just keeps pouring your flowmeter wheel may be stuck. If one or more buttons don't work you may have a keypad or cable issue, or less commonly, the control card may be burnt. Check steam wand and water wand operation at this point, do they work? Finally measure shot temperatures. After a cooling flush, (listen for flash boil to stop) use a temperature probe to measure water temp in the group (you can snake it up through the spout or snake it over the rim of the basket and gently lock it into the group, enough to hold the portafilter in place) It should remain steady for at least 30 seconds. If it drops, the heat exchanger is losing efficiency due to scale buildup.
Then you can tear down the machine and start correcting issues.
Definitely run the machine and test it before you start tearing it apart so you can identify areas that need attention. You could spend all kinds of time and money fixing this thing only to discover the card is fried. So get it powered up and let us know what happens. If anything breaks, it was probably likely to in short order anyway. Good luck.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 6:54am
Subject: Re: Complete newb about to rehab a Nuova Simonelli Mac 2000V
 

David,
Thanks for the update on the Swift, I knew it was $pendy and said so. Thinking about it though, LM machines were always paired with them so I am sure you are right when you say the PF won't fit. Sorry :D

Salt, rock salt packaged and sold for water softeners is food safe, no worries on that account and that is what I advised not salt sold for melting snow and ice.

Sea salt,... OK, sure it will work, it costs a little more but still it will not break the bank so if it is more comforting to have that, go for it.  As to it being cleaner? Well it comes from large open air evaporation ponds, and is harvested by large earth moving equipment from off of the ground. Rock salt from salt mines is dug from the ground by large earth moving machines. Either way has similar equipment harvesting it and either way will work as long as it was checked for being food safe.

I agree table salt is not an option and that is why I advised rock salt, sold for water softeners, commonly found in big box stores for very low cost.

I will humbly differ though on the mini, you need to consider more than hourly throughput, the quality of the grind is much more important than having excess ability. I don't NEED the throughput of my grinders but the quality of the grind is what I am after so,  while the Swift won't work, I would look to at least a Major for the quality of grind. It is easy to setup a Mazzer on a timer for by the shot grinding into the doser but it would take someone handy and knowing what they are doing to do it properly. A standalone timer with a remote trigger  can be used, and the switch on the grinder modded to be on all the time would be a very cost effective solution to the grinding issue. In use, in the shop, the barista just pushes the grind button when they want the coffee ground, it falls into the doser and when they are ready, dose it into the PF. It need not be an unsightly tangle of wires on the counter, the power cord for the grinder drops down into the counter and the trigger button comes up from the counter.  Perhaps it is just my GEEK coming out though.

I agree though, fire up the machine and see what is wrong before doing a lot of work. I think I said that. :D

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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