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Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Repairing...  
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ricardo_dacosta
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Montclair
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Oct 26, 2013, 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S - descaling boiler
 

frcn Said:

Since the element is suspect, and you have the entire machine apart and cleaned, if the element is affordable go ahead and replace it. Almost like getting a new machine, and worst case is that you would have a spare element.

Posted October 26, 2013 link

Thanks Randy.

Let me ask you: Can I get the machine to start without connecting the wires to the Heat element/Boiler? Woudnt the pump start and send water to the boiler? I ask because I tried to do so, meaning removing the 2 wires that go in the boiler terminals and again, both lights go on, then the relay clicks and green light goes off. No pump sound to fill the boiler...nothing.

Im convinced the heat element is bad and needs replacement but am trying to figure out what else can be happening for the relay to clicked causing the green light to go off.

Thanks
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Boz
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Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:18am
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

Does this model have probes in the boiler? I assume it does like the livia-
Clean the probes- w/ durgol or CRL to remove ANY deposits

Right now, w/ boiler disconnected, I believe it should still fully 'boot' -don't quote me though.

All of these relays spark-its why that smudgey stuff gets in there- not necessarily the issue.


Also the lead to the water tank could be the pump issue- DO NOT use distilled or RO water, or even old water. Electrolytes MUST be present to tell the PCB there is water (it grounds out).

Check ALL grounds to the cord prong-if the tank probe doesn't ground it won't think it has water.

I'm thinking that's NOT the issue though, as clearly power is hitting the ground tripping yr breaker.
My guess is that issue is the element, especially if disconnecting it causes the breaker to NOT trip.
If connected w/ boiler empty it does not trip, still likely the element-grounding into the water to the body to the cord...

The probes I mentioned, one tells the auto fill to start. If they are not functioning properly, they will not tell the PCB to trip the relay and start the heating either.

The PCBs in these are notoriously bad, depending on man dates. Pasquini had endless issues with Giemme, but the newer Gicars have been much better.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
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Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:48am
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

The machine should work without connecting to the heater. Then again it may not, my latest machine will not let you operate the brew system until the pstat clicks off for the first time when heating up.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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ricardo_dacosta
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Montclair
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:51am
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

Thanks for your advise Boz!

Boz Said:

Does this model have probes in the boiler? I assume it does like the livia-
Clean the probes- w/ durgol or CRL to remove ANY deposits

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Yes, it has two Level probes in the boiler. My understanding of the functioning of them is: If water is too low to kick the pump and fill up and if water is too high to stop filling up. I soak them in an citric acid solution along with the rest of the boiler and pipes few days ago so am assuming they are as clean as they can be.

Boz Said:

Also the lead to the water tank could be the pump issue- DO NOT use distilled or RO water, or even old water. Electrolytes MUST be present to tell the PCB there is water (it grounds out).

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Am using regular tap water

Boz Said:

Check ALL grounds to the cord prong-if the tank probe doesn't ground it won't think it has water.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Will do

Boz Said:

I'm thinking that's NOT the issue though, as clearly power is hitting the ground tripping your breaker.
My guess is that issue is the element, especially if disconnecting it causes the breaker to NOT trip.
If connected w/ boiler empty it does not trip, still likely the element-grounding into the water to the body to the cord...
The probes I mentioned, one tells the auto fill to start. If they are not functioning properly, they will not tell the PCB to trip the relay and start the heating either.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Somehow if the boiler is connected, now breakers wont trip. I may have connected the wires wrong before. I have followed the wiring schematic and am confident they are properly connected now. Same symptom both lights go on and few seconds later , the relay clicks and green light goes off and no water to the boiler nor any other activity.

Am starting to wander if it has to do with the Thermic Safety Thermostat located right below the Heat Element. Unfortunately my year model does not have a reset button. If you know a way to either test it or reset it manually let me know.

Boz Said:

The PCBs in these are notoriously bad, depending on man dates. Pasquini had endless issues with Giemme, but the newer Gicars have been much better.

Posted October 27, 2013 link

Is there a way to test my Giemme box? I did remove all wires from it and put them back together to make sure they were properly in place. No luck.
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ricardo_dacosta
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Location: Montclair
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Posted Sun Oct 27, 2013, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

So...next question...could I have blew the pump (its a vibe pump) by pouring 3 x8oz cups of hot water out of the water spout? Have been reading your not supposed to run the pump continuously for more than 30-45 seconds.

Would a dead pump cause a cut out?

I have a multimeter and decided to measure the resistance of the 2 AC wires of the pump (the other wire is connected to ground) It is reading 6.03 which seems really low for a 120V 70W pump no?

I tried to measure voltage with the machine on but got no reading. I didnt have water in the reservoir as Im not very experienced with electricity and was afraid some water could go into the machine while me taking readings so thats why I chose to measure resistance instead...Does that work?

To recap...we know the heat element is gone and needs replacement but the machine should have booted even with a dead element...so what is causing the machine not to boot is the main question...could it be the pump? the relay? the Thermal Safety Switch?or the PCP? Machine is from 2001 and seems like it has all original pieces.
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Boz
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Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 6:13am
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

My take- wiring the line from board to water tank straight to a ground-if pump starts up clean the terminal tab inside water tank.
The pump is 120, you can wire it to the wall to test (or shoot water at your co-workers). The solenoid valves arenas well btw.
If you suspect the pcb-you can mail to Pasquini and they rebuild/repair them for a very reasonable price.
If it is not the tank lead, I'd put money on the relay or board. You might consider sending in the board either way as it's a very reasonable repair cost and if there's nothing wrong it's not a high price to pay to know for cetain.

The relay may click but not be connecting due to carbon build up- they can be cleaned- pencil eraser et cetera to the copper contacts. I never do it, because our customers are snots and generally higher price is preferable to coming back. The relays are pretty neat old school tech though (if that turns yr crank!).

See how you go
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ricardo_dacosta
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Montclair
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 8:29am
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

Boz Said:

My take- wiring the line from board to water tank straight to a ground-if pump starts up clean the terminal tab inside water tank.

Posted October 28, 2013 link

Tried that but pump didnt start :(

Boz Said:

The pump is 120, you can wire it to the wall to test (or shoot water at your co-workers). The solenoid valves arenas well btw.

Posted October 28, 2013 link

I wired the pump to the wall and removed only 1 out of the 2 tubes at the exit side...Pump did work but was only able to get 2oz of water every 30 seconds. Not sure if I should have removed more tubes/pipes but it sounds like flow rate is half than supposed to be?

Boz Said:

If you suspect the pcb-you can mail to Pasquini and they rebuild/repair them for a very reasonable price.

Posted October 28, 2013 link

This is great news as looking at the price of the pcb I have been getting worry this was going to be an expensive purchase

Let me know if there is anything else I should try. Thanks!
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Boz
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Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 1:58pm
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

That does seem slow, but in general, the vibration pumps either work or don't. Occasionally I find where they seem unable to prime or balk at back pressure and fail at brewing, but I'd ignore that for the time being. Try bypassing the pressure stat, run a paper clip or whatever between the two tabs, unless you feel confident about testing the switch.
This sounds odd, but try unplugging the flow meter/turbine. I've had those do odd things. I fail to understand this, but once it was the source of same issue on a Livia.

It does sound like the relay or PCB though. Typically I have one of each on hand and just swap test. Sorry I can't tell you how to test them. :(
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ricardo_dacosta
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Montclair
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

Boz Said:

Try bypassing the pressure stat, run a paper clip or whatever between the two tabs

Posted October 28, 2013 link

I tried that just now and no effect. However I took the opportunity to measure voltage on those two tabs with the machine on and for the first few seconds when I turn the machine and the green light is on it did give me a reading, but only 60V...then the light went off and reading went back to zero...so definitely something is shutting the electricity down.

Am wondering if it could be the Thermal Safety Switch right under the boiler. On newer models you can reset them but mine has the old one and doesnt have a reset button :(

Boz Said:

unless you feel confident about testing the switch.

Posted October 28, 2013 link

At this point i would do anything. How do i do that? Im a bit of a chicken with electricity. I was holding the pump wires against the wall with my jumper cables clamps! hey it worked! lol!

Boz Said:

This sounds odd, but try unplugging the flow meter/turbine. I've had those do odd things. I fail to understand this, but once it was the source of same issue on a Livia.

Posted October 28, 2013 link

I dont think I have that on my Bezzera. It is a Semi-Auto. I think flow meters are on the Auto machines...not sure.

Boz Said:

It does sound like the relay or PCB though. Typically I have one of each on hand and just swap test. Sorry I can't tell you how to test them. :(

Posted October 28, 2013 link

BTW this machine has a Giemme 3 probe level controller, not a PCB unless they mean/are the same!
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ricardo_dacosta
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Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Location: Montclair
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Oct 29, 2013, 1:28pm
Subject: Re: Repairing Bezzera Bz99S ...HELP!!!
 

Just an update:

I was told to get in touch with jpboyt at home-barista.com He diagnoses/repairs controllers so I have sent him mine along with the relay and the thermal safety switch. Hopefully this will bring the machine back to life. I will update this post once I get the parts back from him sometime next week

Thanks for all the help so far. Great learning experience!
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