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Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Restoring my new...  
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SJM
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,716
Location: CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: SAMA (2), Maximatic, Cremina...
Grinder: K-10PB, Rancilio MD-50
Vac Pot: no like
Drip: no like
Roaster: HotTop   Huky en route
Posted Sat Sep 7, 2013, 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

I will keep trying to see if I can make it more accessible.

But, I also don't see that becoming a member is so onerous.  
We have two requirements:  give us a valid email address (troll issues), and tell us what Gaggia you have or are considering.

What's so horrible about that (not asked with any "tone";  just a real question)?

Susan
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Sep 7, 2013, 3:51pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

I have no negative comments about the Gaggia forum.  I just cringe to sign up to yahoo when I have to agree to, my words, "we can track you and use your information."  I am not even claiming that they are worse than others, just another place to track and send information.  I try to join some where I feel that I can contribute and read others.  The fact that it is closed, on top of the above, does not make it present as warm and fuzzy.

You still regularly contributed here when I joined here.  In fact the knowledge base used to be open and could be referenced.

Many of the Youtube's are available and I have referenced those.  

Thank you again for the dialogue and trying to open the group.  Careful, you may soften your "finicky, and few word" image :)
Fred

Returning this thread to its regular programing/topic

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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SJM
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,716
Location: CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: SAMA (2), Maximatic, Cremina...
Grinder: K-10PB, Rancilio MD-50
Vac Pot: no like
Drip: no like
Roaster: HotTop   Huky en route
Posted Sat Sep 7, 2013, 5:12pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

D4F Said:

Returning this thread to its regular programing/topic

Posted September 7, 2013 link

Good idea.
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iko
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

After successfully adding the trimmer for pressure adjustment and the pressure gauge, the PID came and got installed. Tonight I also added a copper coil around the heater. Wasn't easy. Had to take the OPV and the three-way valve off. The brew thermostat will no longer be used, as the PID took over that function. After winding the copper coil I had to flatten the tubing so that the OPV could fit. Did the same thing on the other side for the valve. Connected the copper tubing directly to the original fitting by redoing the threads on a 1/8 NPT female -> 1/4 compression fitting.  The 1/8 NPT thread I tapped with an M10x1.0 and it fits good (teflon tape used).

iko: DSC00170.JPG
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iko
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:11pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

Another view of the preheating copper coil.

iko: DSC00171.JPG
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iko
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:12pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

Carefully fitting it in the machine.

iko: DSC00172.JPG
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iko
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Sep 21, 2013, 10:13pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

Decided to run mostly copper tubing.

iko: DSC00173.JPG
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Sep 22, 2013, 12:58pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

Nice clean up and work.  Very tidy.

iko Said:

Well, considering that there's quite a big difference between 13 bar and 9 bar, while pulling a shot the OVP will let quite a bit of hot water out of the boiler. I figure it'd be better to use the dimmer to set the pressure, not lose any hot water, hence better temperature stability. Plus it'd give me the option of pressure profiling, which does sound interesting to experiment with. Will try to get a dimmer today, maybe a rheostat in the future.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Does this stop OPV return?  

One problem of preheat is that most of the preheat water is returned to the boiler with an OPV.  Does the dimmer stop this?  Easy enough to catch the return line volume and see.  1/4" ID tubing is about 9 - 10 ml/foot and flow at 9 bar for conventional  UKLA pump is about 105 ml in 25 sec which apportions between pull allowing water into the tank and OPV return.  I am not sure how the dimmer will affect the pump flow but you can measure that.

IIRC your boiler is about 8.5 - 9 oz, much larger than the Classic so better reserve and buffer for the incoming water.

Did you deal with the "standpipe" and OPV routing as below?

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/581975

What PID and functions?  Will you add heat with brew?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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iko
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Sep 22, 2013, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

D4F Said:

Nice clean up and work.  Very tidy.

Posted September 22, 2013 link

Thanks!

D4F Said:

Does this stop OPV return?  

Posted September 22, 2013 link

No, I decided to do pressure adjustment via the dimmer.

D4F Said:

One problem of preheat is that most of the preheat water is returned to the boiler with an OPV.  Does the dimmer stop this?  Easy enough to catch the return line volume and see.  1/4" ID tubing is about 9 - 10 ml/foot and flow at 9 bar for conventional  UKLA pump is about 105 ml in 25 sec which apportions between pull allowing water into the tank and OPV return.  I am not sure how the dimmer will affect the pump flow but you can measure that.

Posted September 22, 2013 link

I dialed the OPV up to about 11.5 bar, so it's there just for safety, hence no water is returned during the pull. Decided to adjust the pressure with a trimmer. Hm... not sure how the dimmer affects the flow. The pump must have slower flow when dialed down to 8-9 bar via the trimmer, but I haven't measured it. I guess I should find something with a small enough hole to get 9 bar pressure and then see how much water I can get through in 25s.

D4F Said:

IIRC your boiler is about 8.5 - 9 oz, much larger than the Classic so better reserve and buffer for the incoming water.

Did you deal with the "standpipe" and OPV routing as below?
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/581975

Posted September 22, 2013 link

No, I didn't modify anything inside the boiler. In retrospect I probably should have, before installing the coil, as now it's more difficult to open up the thing.

D4F Said:

What PID and functions?  Will you add heat with brew?

Posted September 22, 2013 link

It's a cheap REX-C700 with what I guess are regular PID functions. Input of various thermocouple types and including RTDs, two alarm functions, relay and SSR outputs. So far I have only implemented the brew temperature stabilization, not the steam temperature via alarm.

What do you mean about "heat with brew?"

Just in case someone wants to attach copper wire to the boiler, this is the adapter I got and tapped with the M10x1.0 tap.

iko: DSC00175.JPG
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Sep 22, 2013, 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Restoring my new Old white Coffee Gaggia
 

iko Said:

I dialed the OPV up to about 11.5 bar, so it's there just for safety, hence no water is returned during the pull. Decided to adjust the pressure with a trimmer. Hm... not sure how the dimmer affects the flow. The pump must have slower flow when dialed down to 8-9 bar via the trimmer, but I haven't measured it. I guess I should find something with a small enough hole to get 9 bar pressure and then see how much water I can get through in 25s.

Posted September 22, 2013 link

Bottom of page 2, a bit on hole size and flow at 9 bar.

Click Here (coffeegeek.com)


iko Said:

It's a cheap REX-C700 with what I guess are regular PID functions. Input of various thermocouple types and including RTDs, two alarm functions, relay and SSR outputs. So far I have only implemented the brew temperature stabilization, not the steam temperature via alarm.

What do you mean about "heat with brew?"

Posted September 22, 2013 link

Heat with brew, and why preheat may not be necessary.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/571792

I use a PID with algorithms and 2 alarm functions.  PID algorithms supply idle/brew temperature, one alarm is able to add heat with/during brew to stop intrashot drop and keep the boiler heated by balancing the heat calories to cold water calories, and the second alarm replaces the steam stat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sluei1-IkTw

From the prior reference on OWC by AndyPanda, it seems that fixing the upright copper tube and cold water intake help.  You may want to consider that if it is not all back and running.  Sounds like a potentially great machine.  You are having fun, and that and great espresso count :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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