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Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Isomac...  
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clairebear3
Senior Member
clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Tue Jul 9, 2013, 1:08pm
Subject: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

So my Millenium had been on for about 12 hours when DH went to brew a cup to discover that there was no pressure on the machine.  Only the red power light was burning, the machine wasn't heating up or making any noise at all.

Normally I manually prime the pump but the last week or so that didn't happen.  I also noticed a small drip where the brew handle meets the machine.  If I turn the machine on now the automatic refill doesn't start but I can run water threw the group.  Nothing happens when I open the steam/water pipes.

From what I've read on other threads it could be the thermal fuse or heating element.  I am going to borrow a multi meter from someone but I have never used one before.  Can someone guide me through it?  It might take me a while to reply because I also have a 14month old daughter who loves her mama's attention :)

I'm going to replace the group rubber and clean things up in the meantime.

Any help is welcome!

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,766
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:24am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

The first place I would look is the over temp safety. A lot of them are resetable but it seems that the standard one on that machine is a replace only. The upgraded part is shown on the 1st line website, look to the bottom of the Previews of new upgrades, I don't know if the part is local to you or if you need to order it from this side of the world.

Perhaps 1st line might be able to help you.
Click Here (www.1st-line.com)

I doubt the DH had much to do with your machines issues :P he just wanted coffee!

If the over temp tripped, it may just be a one time thing or your Pstat may be starting to have issues.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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clairebear3
Senior Member
clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Mon Jul 22, 2013, 5:02am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

So I finally borrowed a multi meter, cracked open the machine, then discovered that the battery in the multi meter had leaked and I hadn't got a new one...any how.  I had a look in the machine and couldn't identify the over temp safety yet.  I was looking for the thermal fuse, is it the bit in red tape on my pic?  That just seems like two connectors covered in tape to me, I can't feel any fuse in the middle.

Click Here (i224.photobucket.com)

I'm a bit intimidated now looking inside.

When using a multi meter, if you are sure that you have the leads plugged in correctly do you have to respect the - and + when you are testing?  Or just put the pins under the sheath and it doesn't matter what way?

If it is the thermal fuse would this really stop the auto re-fill from working when you turn it on?  I can imagine it not heating but what would that have to do with the water level?

I had a problem a few months ago where the auto re-fill was working CONSTANTLY just cycling water through.  I did a citric acid de scale with the machine tipped on it's side and that fixed it.  I tried it this time around with the opposite problem just to see but it didn't help.

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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clairebear3
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clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 5:02am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

So it was the thermal fuse I had found.  I peeled back the electrical tape around the two ends to test it properly.  It showed a resistance of 0.03 ohms, my meter has an error margin of 0.03 so I guess it's '0'.

One of the pieces of tape was quite scorched but I'm doubting that I'm lucky enough for that to be the problem.

What now?

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,766
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 5:52am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

Did you remove one of the leads from the safety? If not, it is possible that some place else in the circuit is allowing current to flow. When checking a component, you need to make sure it is isolated and not in a circuit. If you still get flow through the safety, you need to start at the start. Check power from the plug to the switch, from the switch to the next component etc until you find the problem.

There should not be any scorching of tape or wire contacts. If you have that, you need to find out why the connection is getting so hot. Every factory connection I have seen does not use tape to insulate the connection, they use plastic covers over the connection. If you have tape, it sounds like someone has been fooling around inside the machine, the tape could be pointing to a trouble spot that someone had before.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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clairebear3
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clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 4:42am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

There is a special insulating cover on the fuse but at each end there was tape connecting the cover to the plastic connectors.

I can't even find the temp safety!

Darn it I might not be handy enough for this and there is NO WHERE I can bring it in, damn!  I will keep trying.

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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clairebear3
Senior Member
clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 4:47am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

Just unplugged one end of the thermal fuse and still got a zero reading.  I am setting the multi meter on 200 ohms, that's right isn't it?

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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clairebear3
Senior Member
clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 5:05am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

I want to test the heating element but I'm not sure if you can just pull the wires out of the connectors?  I don't want to break something else.  Should I also test that on resistance 200 or should I be setting the multimeter on AC200?  Thank you...

 
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dana_leighton
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dana_leighton
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 1,944
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Relax; Caferina...
Grinder: Macap MXK; Baratza Vario-W;...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Technivorm; CCD; Melitta
Roaster: Poppery I w/PID controller
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 7:59am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

Hi Claire.

Eric Svendson created an electrical schematic that you can use to trace the connections. It is at this link:

http://users.rcn.com/erics/Illustrations/IS_ELEC3.jpg

The thermal fuse will only shut down the the heating element. If you trace the Neutral circuit (blue), you will see that the current can get to the pump regardless of the thermal fuse being good or bad. Regardless, it's worth checking both the thermal fuse and the heating element in case one or both are part of the problem.

  1. Disconnect BOTH ends of the thermal fuse and check for continuity. The range you use on the multimeter is not important - if it is bad, the resistance will be over limit - the same reading you get with the meter on and the leads not connected to anything. If it is good, you should get essentially zero resistance.

  2. If that's good, then check the heating element the same way - disconnect both leads, and measure resistance. A good element should be about 8.6 ohms, a bad one will read over limit.

If both of those are good, then we need to look further down the circuit. It is possible that the Giemme controller relays are stuck in the open position, but I would expect that they would not all be stuck but it's possible. It's more likely that the transformer is bad and so isn't sending current to close the relays.

I'm not an expert, but that's how I read the schematics. I have replaced the Giemme box in my Isomac, but the symptoms of failure were different. On the Giemme box, when the machine is cold and the boiler needs to be filled, pins 3, 4, and 5 should have current (the power goes in on pins 1 and 2, and out on 3, 4, and 5). I think this is tested by checking for current between those pins and the Neutral circuit. I'm at the edge of my electrical knowledge though, so maybe someone else with better skills (Wayne?) can chime in.

Good luck,
Dana

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
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clairebear3
Senior Member
clairebear3
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Rossi RR45/SMP
Roaster: Whirley Pop
Posted Thu Jul 25, 2013, 4:25am
Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium, no pressure, no heat
 

Thanks so much for your replies, it's really helping.  I took the thermal fuse completely off, re-tested it and it tested zero.  I undid both of the connectors to the water element at it tested 38ohms resistance.  This probably means that the element is shot then?  To be honest I really hope it is and not the Giemme controller.  I can better handle a plumbing issue than an electrical one!

We are away this weekend but if you all agree that it is prob the element I will try and take it out next week and have a look.  I'm guessing it will look terrible when I get it out?

Is there also a rubber around the element which needs replacing?

I have never manually de-scaled the boiler, if I have the element out can I just pour de-scaler in when the machine is on it's side and de-scale like this?

 
http://thehousethatkoenclairerebuilt.blogspot.com/
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