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getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > getting ready to...  
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 7:49am
Subject: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

I've gotten some great advice already about plumbing in my Duetto II. Such as, installing a rubber mat behind the pump to reduce noise. I also have looked at Randy's plumb in guide.  However, I'm still a little uncertain about the best setup for the water pathway.  Here's what I'm thinking...please correct me if I'm wrong...

Source water (5 gal bottle) -> sediment filter (1 micron from CCS) -> commercial tank softener (already own) -> carbon filter (10 micron from CCS) -> pump & accumulator (sureflo combo from EP) - > machine (my DII)

Thanks in advance!  I plan to start accumulating the gear I need very soon.

 
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frcn
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 10:04am
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

I have not used a pump like that, but:

Source water (5 gal bottle) -> pump -> commercial tank softener (already own) -> carbon filter (10 micron from CCS) ->  accumulator ->  sediment filter (1 micron from CCS)- > machine (my DII)

I would think that it would be best to put the pump as early as possible to avoid cavitation (starvation from having to draw through so many resistance sources.
You also want the particulate filter just before the machine to protect that pump. You could put the accumulator after the sediment filter (instead of before it) as well.
Since you are using a larger commercial softener I do not think it needs to be protected from particulate matter. A nylon filter sock for the pump's intake would take care of that (dust, hair, grit, insects, etc.).

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 10:53am
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

cool, thanks Randy!

Would you recommend a different pump?  I only looked at EP and CCS for pumps, and found the EP pump/accumulator combo to fit my persona more than the pump CCS sells.  (faik, CCS doesn't even carry accumulators) However, certainly open to other ideas, especially if I don't really need to spend $340 on the pump and accumulator.

 
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frcn
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:27am
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

If the pump + Accumulator costs that much, is there no way to plumb in?
All you would need to replace those two components is a way to tap off an existing water line. Then all you would need, at the most, would be:
Tap from water source -> shut off -> particle filter -> softener -> carbon filter -> a pressure regulator -> machine
Much like I did.

PS - I have no experience with the various pumps available. Most folks run a flojet out of a bottle from what I have read on the forums.

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 12:20pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

My location sucks for plumbing in.  We bought a spec home from a builder, and I'm using a wine bar off the dining room for my espresso bar.  the wine bar shares a wall with the garage.  The kitchen is on the opposite end of the dining room, after going through a butler's pantry.  The whole area is on the first floor, so of course it's a PIA to bring lines in from the attic.  

At the time of purchase, the builder gave me a price of $1800 to put a sink in the wine bar and plumb the area.  We didn't want to add that cost in to our mortgage, and were running our savings dry to buy the house - so we decided to wait.  The builder no longer wants to manage the project.  The sub doesn't seem interested either - so I haven't been able to get an estimate from them (though he actually came to look - just never sent me the estimate...even after being reminded twice).  I did get a different plumbing company to come by and give me an estimate to put in the lines for hot and cold at the sink and a drain - and it was over 10k (wtf?).  Well, maybe I ought to try harder to get the builders new sub to give me an estimate (though so far I've only being able to get him on the phone - i.e., haven't gotten him to actually come to the house)...but I'm pretty tired of filling the dang reservoir, and have had this commercial softener tank laying in wait for several years now (more than I'd care to admit).  

So, I have sort of fallen into just doing to under counter thing since I can do all of it myself. I've considered moving the whole espresso setup to the "breakfast area", but with two small kids in the house, my wife is not yet ready to give that area up to me.  It'll realistically be probably 10 years before I can win that battle, and I'd have to run the line through a long bank of cabinets (maybe 20-25 feet) to get from the sink and dishwasher - though at least I'd have a reasonable shot at doing a real plumb-in job. So there lies my dilemma!

If you have better ideas, I'd love to hear 'em. :)

 
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

So here's another thought...

Being a home fewer as well...I have a couple Cornelius kegs laying around. Why couldn't I fill one with fresh water and use a CO2 tank to drive the water through the filters? I could set the pressure to 30 psi.

 
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calblacksmith
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Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 4:21pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

if you are using a bottle and a water pump you have total control over the water that goes into the system.

In that case I would just fill the bottle with good water and not bother with all the extra filters in conditioners. hey your mileage may vary !

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,067
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 4:53pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

Yeah, But I still need a good source of water. I've been filling the reservoir from the fridge dispenser, so yeah it's filtered, but still harder than I'd like...and it's not too practical to fill a 5gal bottle from there. Now, I'm also thinking of installing a second filter set under my kitchen sink, which would dispense above via a faucet (replacing the built in soap dispenser). Maybe I should set up a T down there with a hose I could use to fill the bottle and only install the single filter system. Hmmm...Wayne, I think you're on to something here...  :)

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,067
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 4:58pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

Still need the same equipment, but the setup takes less thinking through

 
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
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Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 5:25pm
Subject: Re: getting ready to plumb-in, what's the best order
 

Using John Guest plumbing fittings makes plumbing runs so very easy. The fittings are simple to use and dependable and the likes are flexible and can be easily routed. But it sounds like you have no crawl space under the house (slab?). That would make it a bit more difficult unless there is already a water line for something else in the attic.

But if the coffee bar backs up against the garage, is there a water source in there to tap into? maybe the water heater's  input or something?

 
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