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PID on a Saeco Aroma
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > PID on a Saeco...  
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LeSyphon
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Qc, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:38pm
Subject: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

ok I know its not the first post on that, bit each time I read about this it always get nowhere at all and it doesn't have pics at all...

So anyway can someone can give me advice for the proper way to install a pid on a saeco aroma??


Does this pid is ok ? Click Here (www.ebay.com)


I got one last question? What its the difference between the 25/40 A for the SSR??

thanks a lot!!!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 10:05pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

Do you have the PID?  Did it come with instructions?  Do you have a way to attach that thermocouple?  Do you solder or will you crimp?  Do you have a DMM and know how to use it?

This is the Auber system below.  I show that so that you know a kit is available and can see what is included.  The sensor is "inside a screw" which will have proper threads to install.  I will guess this sensor

Click Here (www.auberins.com)

If correct, then you can see the thread size.  You can also email Auber and ask what sensor is recommended for your machine.

Kit

Click Here (www.auberins.com)

I am a DIY guy and can help with that, but you need a correct sensor, and I will guess M4 not M6 threads.  I cannot tell on the PID as that comes in more than one configuration.  To do PID temperature control and steam control, you need a PID controller that can have both PID outbut to SSR and an alarm at the same time, not either or. You can probably confirm that with the seller.

You will need wires and connectors to make similar to this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81832954%40N00/2330218796

Either SSR is fine.  The number is the amperage 25 or 40, and 25 is usually enough, but 40 should not be a problem.

Are you still interested :)  By the way, welcome to CG

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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LeSyphon
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Qc, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 1:30pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

I dont have the pid yet and didn't order it yet....

I would prefer to crimp

If by DMM you mean a multimeter... Yes I own one and yes I know how to use it.

From there kit for the Aroma you can see that itn't a K type temp. sensor but this Platinum RTD temperature sensor.... I search a little on there website and found this :
Click Here (www.auberins.com)          
Maybe that could help!  

I also email Auberins.. will see....


Thanks for your help!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 2:05pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

I am not trying to recommend any sensor type.  Yes I was aware that I showed the RTD type, but again, the purpose was to note the screw type and size.  On the Saeco kit, RTD sensor is mentioned and on the sensor list the only RTD type that seem like they would fit is the one that screws in, the M4, and the one that you show.  The kit however mentions a "tip" made for the Saeco and "the sensor is built inside of a screw."  Fortunately your checking with Auber will make clear the sensor.  You can use thermocouples if you find a good fit/mount.

There is a lot of current info on PID install for a Gaggia that will be similar to yours including making of the wires and supplies. You will be most interested in the last few pages.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/571792

Many "stats" are actually screw in type like this, and the RTD M4 screw that Auber shows replaces this.

http://www.espressoparts.com/GI_356?&search_id=2022748

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 2:41pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

If you want to piece it together and save, then get a thermocouple such as this

Click Here (www.ebay.com)

or this

Click Here (www.ebay.com)

I have used the first and simply cut off the plug to get bare wires for the PID contacts.  The whole problem is finding/making a good thermal contact for the sensor end.  Many of the included thermocouples with ebay PIDs are industrial type with heavy cable over and a nonusable screw.

I could see an M4 screw, if that turns out to be the size for the stat screw well, with a washer and just slight clamp pressure to hold the bare thermocouple down, and thermopaste.  That would put the thermocouple at the site it belongs.

The Auber stuff is good quality, made to fit, and well thought out, but not as cheap as ebay.

Most any PID controller will work for just idle/brew temperature but you need an alarm function is addition for steam.  Some of the generics are PID or alarm.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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LeSyphon
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Qc, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 2:59pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

Thats the answer fron Anger

Hi J-F,
Thanks for contacting us. The sensor is not listed on the website. We have very limited amount so we only sell it with the KIT-BSTR.
Thanks,


Oh and I found this too : Click Here (www.ebay.com)


Oh and look at the post of prblouin : "Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface"?LastView=1362515111&Page=2
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 3:32pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

Unless you can understand the alarm functions and know how to set them the steam portion will be difficult to use.  I can understand Aubers instructions, at least on a few of the controllers.  Thera are functions including alarm on some of the Auber PIDs that set up differently.

Again, you get a heavily insulated thermocouple and unless it matches your existing screw well, it is not useful.  You can always buy a separate thermocouple like shown above.

What you can do is remove a stat and find the size and threading, or clarify whether it is clamped or screwed.  In your situation I would remove the stat and take it to a hardware store and match a nut to the threads, if applicable.  That info will then be able to tell you what you are looking for as a bolt on, or what bolt/screw iwill go into the well and help you clamp down a thermocouple.  Interesting that Auber mentions a screw, but when I look at a parts diagram for Aroma, the stats look clamp in or on, no screw.

How is the stat held on the machine?  If clamped, is there a screw in the clamp?  If simply clamped, how will you put a thermpcouple on the machine?

Which actual parts diagram here?

http://www.partsguru.com/SaecoHomeEspresso.html

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 3:46pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

I looked at the thread and the post that you noted.  He used the "RTD sensor" PT100 but did not say where he got it and its attachment.  Perhaps the Auber nonthreaded one that you mentioned prior.  If you do not have screw type stats the clamp one that you showed prior would work well.  

Steam control apparently was not set up on the PID controller and remained on the OEM steam stat.  Idle/brew temperature is the most easy straight forward part.  Setting up that PID still is not simple, the instructions not great from the thread.

The wiring is essentially what I showed you in the photo prior.  Substitute the RTD clamp stat type sensor in the photo.

Auber SYL 1512 is easy to set up.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 4:17pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

The install on HB looked like an Auber 1512 PID controller and it was interesting the note that the instructions were not specifically for the Aroma. That would make sense as the wording about the "stat" in the kit description on the Auber site spoke of the Screw tip sensor.  If you decide to go with Auber, clear up the sensor configuration, you may not want the screw type unless you have confirmed the screw well on the Aroma.

The Auber kit or parts have good instructions.  You get what you pay for :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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LeSyphon
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Qc, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 4:24pm
Subject: Re: PID on a Saeco Aroma
 

Yes I start to think about it a lot.... Because the PID/SSR/Thermocouples is like 40$ (The one with the alarm) the enclosure is like 15$ and a sensor to replace the thermocouple that comes with the ebay kit will almost cost like 20-25$ plus maybe 10$ for the connectors and wires....... So I'm like at 90$.... the 60$ more will maybe worth it to avoid destroying my machine....


Just one thing... From what I can see on auber website... I'm not sure if it can control steam temperature too??
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