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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Gaggia Classic...  
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:17pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

I have been using the IPhone charger for several days without difficulty.  If I had it to do over, I would the cheap generic iphone chargers and probably sticky foam tape 2 together making a compact unit. There is not a lot of space on the floor of the machine.  I would then use the USB connection as the break and solder the small wires, 22 awg in your case, to the USB stubs.  That leaves the spades out and still has the chargers removable/replaceable.  Like below, but with long leads soldered in and no spades.  Positive lead say 2' to go to controller, and negative say 12 - 15" to negative ring connector at the SSR.

D4F: Espresso IPhone Charger.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:24pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

Install of Gaggia PID Steam

The steam switch, 7, on the diagram has 2 poles, one to the solenoid and the other is a bypass of the brewstat.  

Click Here (www.partsguru.com)

During steam the brew stat is bypassed or it would over temperature and shut off the elements.  With a PID controller attached in the old brew stat position this is not necessary or desirable.  The Solenoid connection is still used, but the switched wire of the brewstat can be removed.  White on my machine is hot, and grey is switched.  Remove the grey lead and tape over the end, it will be unused.  Using the wire to the charger/power supply for steam, attach one AC charger input lead to the switched post of the steam switch.  The other steam charger lead is at the back incoming post.  Now switching on the steam stat will activate the solenoid red lines to steam switch, and turn on the steam power supply.

PID controller wiring instructions will be after switch instructions.  What will go to the controller is a positive DC output wire from the power supply, and then return to the SSR with diode, with the alarm function of the controller cycling the element on and off.   Mark the power supply output as steam so that you can match steam power supply positive line to Alarm 1 or 2 and know which you have done. Alarm 1 or 2 can be used, but you need to know which supply matches which alarm temperature.  No real problem here as it is easy to switch alarm temperatures or wires at the controller.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 408
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 3:53pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggiau
 

Got the pid, ssr, and rtd sensor. Can I cut up a usb wire to get power to the pid for the checks ? Still waiting on those piggyback s
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 5:20pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

Not sure what you are asking?  If you cut up a USB line to bare wire both ends then hook up to AC and the PID controller, then ok?  If you are trying to run the PID off USB voltage, no.  Are you just trying to use the USB wire before you get the 22 awg wire?  Were you thinking USB power, only 5V DC?  You may have trouble crimping connectors  to the USB wire, it is small, 28 awg IIRC.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 408
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 6:39pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggiau
 

It was to test the pid and the rtd sensor. Instead of an extension cord. Will it not work because its DC power? I'm just waiting on those piggyback connectors.

So it has to be a straight up extension cable?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 7:02pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

Wire is wire except for AWG, the power source is the problem.  You need at least 85V DC or AC, controller does not care.  28awg is small, but will probably work for test.  If you have your 22 awg use it, and if you want to try the USB wire, try if, but you will need female spades or piggybacks to attach to one end and use the machine for power.  You would just use the standard "machine to controller" leads.  Open the machine, attach the leads like you will eventually do, and wire to the controller.  Attached the RTD and jumper on the controller.  Turn it on and likely get EEEE until you select RTD.

I used an extension cord because I had one and then I did not have to mess with the machine.  If I had not had an extension I would have made up the 2 wires that are needed and used them for the test.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 7:13pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

If you need to use the 28 awg, this table shows that 28 awg  is good for 0.226 amps, or 110v x 0.226amps or about 25 watts.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Controller power consumption <2 watts.

Click Here (www.auberins.com)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 1:05pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

Adding heat with brew, PID and intrashot drop

The brew switch is used to turn on the heating element at the same time the pump and solenoid are turned on.  The bottom wire is the grey hot line, white is middle and red the top.  A piggyback will be used to gain a line to turn on one of the power supplies, the other is already for steam.  The amperage use is again quite low, so small awg.  Both red and white leads should be switched.  The red is easiest access and was used.  Again, the other lead to the AC for the DC power supply is from the back plug.  With this set, the brew switch works as normal and in addition turns on the power supply which in turn supplies DC to one of the alarm functions at the PID controller.  This gives switched on-off power to the temperature regulated alarm.  In actual use, the heater will be turned on with the pump/solenoid so that heat is being added at the same time cold water is entering.  

To properly use this feature you need to understand most of the thread and how it was developed.  In short version, AndyP demonstrated that he could balance the cold water with heat by flipping the element on and off and gain balance.  Math showed that the heater needed to run about half of the brew time to balance the cold water calories.  Use of the PID controller to do this was an attempt substitute electronics for technique and experience.  You do not have an integrated flow meter, so the best way to use this option is to get consistent with flow before you try to use it.  It works best with abut 25 – 30 second “on” time.  You can adjust a bit as needed to balance heat, by taste, or by measuring shot temperature.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/588424

The effect will be most noticeable for a second pull in about 0.5 – 1.5 minutes after the first.  You do not have to wait long for the machine.

You are using an alarm function to set the alarm temperature on and off.  That temperature and hysteresis around it will determine how much heat is added.  The alarm temperature will cause the heater to cycle on and off.  The amount of “on time” will be determined by how hot the temperature is set.  Not exact, but it works IF you are consistent in shot volume and flow.  Again this is best understood in the context of the thread and how it was developed.  I get about 45 – 50 ml volume in 25 seconds from the first drip.  Obviously that has heat running from switch on, about 29 – 30 seconds.  For the first shot only, no shot in the previous 3 minutes, I add about 3 – 4 second of “on steam switch and about the same of “rest” before turning on the brew.  It is difficult to blunt out the intrashot drop if you do not preheat with the steam switch.  Again, AndyP showed this and it makes sense.  Heat is into the boiler wall, and cold water in inside the boiler and acts instantly.  Adding the correct amount of heat balance will stop intrashot drop and set up your next brew quickly.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 408
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 6:29pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggiau
 

I started to solder a diode to a small piece of wire for prepping and to experiment. The DMM will make a beeping sound when i touch the probes (connectivity test) together but after soldering a diode to a 22awg wire it doesnt beep but it seems to register as numbers appear. When I reverse it, nothing appears/changes. This makes me thing the connectivity is fine? Would there be no measurement in both directions if I did it wrong?

Okay. so i did a continuity test after the diode but before the soldered joint and then the other side of the joint and it beeped. The diode does something that makes it stop beeping.

-----{}--x--J-------x

I touched by the x's where {}=the diode and J= the soldered joint.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 9:51pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia
 

Test a diode before you solder, should be the same.

Continuity testing sends a small current and and is basically checking resistance. Continuity is 0.0 and beep.  Diodes have resistance and are not really continuous.  One direction will give a low number and the other direction higher and perhaps alternate with OL.  There are also diode tests, but if you test in both directions and get a small number and larger it is probably working fine.  Again, compare those numbers to an unsolder diode.  

You are trying to test your solder and crimp joints after the connection which will be only across the joints, not across the diode, which I think is your diagram.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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