Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Mods and Restorations
Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
Cafe Espresso Machines
Video reviews, nationwide installation, leasing options... Nuova Simonelli, Rancilio, La Marzocco.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Gaggia Classic...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 21 of 40 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Put the wires together with the connector, making V's at the connector, or Y's before it.  However it works for you.  I soldered the 3 twisted wires into the ring connector, and I am not sure if I would try to crimp all 3 into one connector, or splice them with solder making the leg of a Y before the connector.  You may have to play with that.  I would be curious to see if you are able to solder one 22 awg to one connector or spade, and if so, unsolder and try three wire.  Experiment a bit and find what works for you.  Perhaps most of the text should read "connect" wires, spades or ring even if I say solder.  Just the way I did it.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 4:26pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Power supply, 2 needed with similar wiring and connections.  First find the power supplies, about 4.5V to 24V and fairly small.  You have to fit 2 inside the machine.  Actually they could be outside, but not so eye appealing.  I am using old an Cell phone charger and a headset charger.  Shown is a 5V headset charger.  Insulation or shrink tube not shown.

Click Here (www.amazon.com)

Click Here (www.ebay.com)

I actually cut the plug-in terminals of the charger to about 1/2, but not necessary and unless you have something like a Dremel fiber cutting disk, not fun or easy.  You can see the charger with a female spade on each of the 2 terminals, a length of wire shortened for the photo, but perhaps 18" and you can fit that inside the machine.  In reality, one leg will go to a front switch and one to the back incoming AC line, giving the 2 AC input lines, switched.  One charger input will eventually hook up to the Steam switch and one to the Brew switch, more on that later.  I show 2 wires together, they will be split to go one front and one back as noted.  They will go where wires already exist, so female spades.  I show 2 separate piggybacks, not the best type and my left overs.  Note that the type shown does not fix directly to the wire, The Auber ones do, but slides on the post and then allow 2 connections with female spades.  Sorry to be wordy, hopefully clear with the photo.  The steam switch power supply will be able to plug onto the steam switch with a female spade, as the OEM connection will be removed and a place opened.  The brew switch will need a piggyback, on the wire or separate as noted in a prior post.

At the rear AC plug post, I did a little soldering to a piggyback to avoid a stack of piggybacks.  I soldered several wires to a flat tab of a piggyback like shown and used shrink over that, and left the open tab for the original connection of OEM wiring.  At the rear you will end up with an OEM wire, and wires for PID controller power and each power supply, or 4 where there was 1.  I have a 5th as I ran the second PID for a while as a thermocouple reader.  I did not want to stack up 4 or 5 piggybacks.

I will do another post for power supply output.

D4F: Power Supply Input.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 11:42am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

Power supply modification for use as Alarm DC

You will need to cut the cord of the power supply output.  You can leave it long, but I prefer to make about 6"-8" and then add connectors.  I can remove it at the connectors and replace, though I have not had to do that, and from Skene of the diagram for use of DC power with alarm function, his is doing fine after years.  

Many power supplies use one insulated wire and then the other "wire" is the copper strands around the insulated wire.  Older supplies seemed to be more likely to have 2 insulated wires, but no problem.  The cut end has a white insulated line and free copper strands around it.

D4F: Charger Bare Cord.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 11:50am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

The fix for the copper wire strands is a piece of shrink tube over the strands with the end exposed for solder or crimp.  Small shrink tube over the strands so that you have two insulated wires.  When satisfied with that, I add a short piece of shrink, not shown, over the junction where the two go into the single original line.

D4F: Charger 2 Wires.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 12:07pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

Connections for the power supply output are shown below.  For simplicity insulation not shown is needed over all connections.  Sorry for the different color shop towels and small photo.  On the red  "+" output lead a male spade and on the white  "-"  a female.  Either side, just use a male and female so thay you have to match up connections and will not be able to hook it up backwards, positive to negative.  

Use a multimeter to confirm your + and - leads!

Also note that on the + side there are 2 wires after the connection, only one connected.  In reality, you will need about 2' of wire to the PID controller, the connected side and about 1' returning from the Alarm post on the controller to the SSR.  I have joined strands and you may be using single wire.  No matter, the point is that on the + side, there will be about 2' of wire to the controller and about 1' returning to the SSR, through a DIODE.

The - side will have about 1' of wire from the power supply to the - post of the SSR.

At the SSR those wires will join at a ring connector with wires from PID SSR output.  Remember there are 2 power supplies, if you do steam and add brew heat, and similar connections to alarm 1 and alarm 2, and back to SSR.

D4F: Charger with Extensions.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

One other consideration for the power supply would be the IPod clone charger similar to this.  I think that you mentioned USB, Brianl.

Click Here (www.ebay.com)

Pretty good price for 5, so replace when/if they fail.  My understanding that most fail at the IPod plug, and that would be cut off.  You could use the USB cord cut off short and connected as above, or use the USB cord to get to the neg - terminal of the SSR.  If you like to peel wire, you could get a long enough + line to go to the Alarm of the PID controller.  Black and red are 5V and white and green can be discarded.  Nice compact units.

D4F: IPhone Charger.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 528
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 3:44pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

Great posts!

Now is there a big difference between the usb wires and the regular ones when you prep for the pid? I would like to use the most reliable or best way. But if the two wires are the same, those iPod ones are nice and small. I'm not as familiar with the usb wires guts.

So the back switch looks like it will be interesting. How would I be able to work it back there? Is piggy back on piggy back on piggy back a firehazard? ha

Or, should I solder the three wires to a single wire with heat shrink over it (this is 22 AWG wire so maybe a 30 watt will work or should i get a new one. recommended wattage? the harbour freight one?) So then just the single wire goes into one piggy back or is there another connection piece i'm missing that can help solve this? I have never tried something like this so i figured i'd ask before it's too late. haha
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 7:59pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

The USB wires are small wires, the positive and ground, and 2 data leads are inside an insulated and jacketed outer.  I am not sure of any temperature specifications, so neat as they are, that may not be the way to go.  The chargers are small/compact and the disconnect is the USB end, so very tidy. Probably should be safe.  I also do not have a specification noting the operating temperature for the charger.  It does lay on the floor over the tank, mostly out of direct heating.  The chargers could be mounted externally, say in a box at the back of the machine with wires to and from, back into the machine.  This is a DIY and assume responsibility and risk.

If you have a question about wire size and needed amps/watts, and temparature, then look at page 16 this thread,  quoted

"I find that the Auber 1512A lists power consumption as <2 watts which is 0.018amps at 110v. 30awg is listed for up to 0.86amps chassis wiring or 0.142 for power transmission (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm).  The DC output to the DC SSR is 40ma at 8v DC.  SSR AC is using the AC as a pass through to be switched on and off and I believe in only figured in the power consumption of the PID.  Perhaps more that you wanted to know about wire.  I assumed that they were using 110 120v.  30 awg and larger seems safe, so it is what you can find and work with knowing that you need to get into the PID box.  Of course you can enlarge the box hole, but small is flexible and easy to work with in a bundle.

I ran a test on my Gaggia for machine temperature. I put a thermocouple over the boiler where the closest wire is located. With 30 minutes of stabilization and then a couple minutes of steam, the thermocouple read 174F which is about 79C. I cannot advise about using less than 105C which is probably called for by some code or rule for wiring inside equipment. Even the computer ribbon cable is mostly that to go inside a computer."

And a good read to understand the SSR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_relay

I think that your 30 watt iron will solder your small wires.  Not so sure about 3 together, but you need to get the wire and test.  Cut off 3 pieces, about 2 inches and strip an end and twist and solder.  If that works, try to fill the end of a spade or ring connector with melted solder.  It that works, try to join one wire with the connector, and it that works, unsolder and then try the three into the connector.  Hope you got that, but see what you, and the iron, are capable of.  Once we know that we can decide how to join.  You will have to crimp the 14 awg.

Depending on your ability to solder the back connections can be done.

I do not think that the HF iron will do the 14 awg, probably the rest.  I have used one.  They are light and come in a case, so easy to travel and use in a pinch, just not really powerful.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 528
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 8:53pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

I will just have the dc power chargers out the back. Ill have 25 feet of wire to work with. Should be fine. So you say from a strickly connectivity stand point they should be equal (usb vs reg)? The only difference is the usb has two data wires? I wasnt sure if the usb connect into the actual charger would cause issues.

I found a tutorial of a guy sticking 4 x 22 awg wires into one 16-22 awg red crimp terminal. Sounds like exactly what i want to do.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 9:04pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

All I can do is confirm that the output is 5+VDC and the power supply is rated for the amps.  I do not see why it will not work.  You have to do something with the chargers, they can't dangle by the wires. Just curious how you will deal with them.  Velcro to the case?  In a box, but what to do with the box?  That is why my stuff is inside.  I will likely end up trying one, but probably not soon enough to help you.  I do not have any clone, cheap, extras just to try, yet :)

Is the tutorial a web site?  Post it?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 21 of 40 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Gaggia Classic...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Great Espresso at Home
Curated selection of the best machines from La Spaziale, Izzo, Quick Mill, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.2590239048)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+