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Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
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Location: Chicago IL
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Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Already having tough love it looks like haha.

I made the two piggybacks, both checked with continuity test and they beep. I have the older gaggia classic, so on the back plug i need to tap the top blue wire. on the front, tap the middle connector on the on/off switch.
Click Here (www.afonic.org)

Following the pid instructions, I put the piggyback from the front switch to number 2 and the one from the back plug to number 1. The RTD gets connected to 8 and 9 and the 22awg jumper from 9 to 10.

Now I go to power it up and see a big spark and it appears that the two wires bare ends from the piggybacks are fried. IS the PID also turned into a paperweight at this point or try again?

Do you know what might have caused this? I have all the piggy's plugged in and did continuity tests and still seem to be going. makes me seem to believe that the problem is the actual connection on the PID from the bare wires.

Click Here (auberins.com)

I have no idea to test which is the hot wire either. I tried to set the DMM to 200 V~ and touched the bare end of piggyback with the red probe and put the black other probe on like the metal case but no reading. It worked fine when i did it on the wall outlet. black in the rounder plug and the other red prob in the skinny slits part. It also worked when I touched a probe to each of the wires coming from the piggyback (120V).

I guess I just want to know whether I effed the PID? ha Didn't want to try again until I had an idea why it sparked the first time. maybe the wire touched the surface it was set on because the two power terminals are on the bottom? The surface does have a slight burn mark on it.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 7:13pm
Subject: Re:  Gaggia Classic PID Install and PID Controller Instructions
 

There are more than one old models, so I will trust your reading of the diagram.  This is where I used the DMM, to confirm correct leads to switch.  That said, it is difficult to go wrong on the PID power.  It is AC and actually either 22awg jumper can go to either 1 or 2 on the PID.  Your RTD connections sound correct.  Do you only have 2 wires at the back, no ground, no third lead?

Did you see a spark?  If so, where?

The problem with wiring at the PID is a loose single stand of the wire bundle that can short.  Were the wires actually burned or the insulation melted?  That would mean a short out on the wire, not back at the piggyback connector.  At the piggyback you have a connection  and then insulation so that even if you had a loose strand, it should be contained.  I am guessing a short across the 1 and 2 terminals from a single strand or a defective PID with a short.

I see that you added about the burn, probably a short across the terminal, loose strand.  That may have left the PID intact and the short outside it, hard to tell.  Check the voltage, AC, at one piggyback to the other, switch off and voltage off, and then switch on, 110+volts.  Obviously make sure the wire ends are insulated, tape with electrical tape so that the loose ends cannot touch or contact you or something else.  Hint cut about 3" tape and fold it in half with one wire at the fold and the other towaard the other end.  Insulated and held apart.

When you are satisfied with the connections and the wires, then hook up the PID and make sure that there are no loose strands.

I am not sure about the tough love.  If you meant about not posting, I was waiting for you and was afraid that I was overloading or rushing you :)  I am happy to help.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

The tough love was me in the pid.

I re-did it just now and everything seems to work. says its 65 degrees, which matches my thermometer.


thanks for the tips on the lose strands. I made sure that none were even slightly sticking out from the screw in terminal at the pid.

My RTD didn't come coiled up like you mentioned. Is the tip for when installing just to make sure you screw in the tip while also rotating the wire? so it doesnt over twist and snap? or just make my own tight coil?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 7:45pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

Great that the PID was not fried.  

My RTD was not a tight coil but was not loose wires.  Like a 4" or larger coil then gather in the middle to a somewhat flat bundle.  Yours was probably similar as it is in the installation guide. If you unbundled, put it back to gether.  There is not much room in the machine and the wires get in the way.  The connection is somewhat fragile at the wire bolt interface.  I tried to turn over the wires and bolt together so that I was not twisting the bolt without the wires which would twist the wires mostly at the bolt.  Make it like fig. 6 in the guide and turn the whole thing toghther.  That was the most difficult part to me.

One difficult part was getting the connectors off of the brewstat.  Have fun :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:03pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

what setting did you use to strip the output on the DC chargers (not the USB)? Since there is that insulated piece inside? you just pry scissors in there to open it up?
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:14pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

What is the cord like?  Sounds like you mean a single looking cord with an insulated line in it and the free wires?  I used an exacto knife and cut longitudinal along the outer insulation and then peeled it back. You will need to peel off about 2".  After peel back, then cut off.  I think you mean like this.  About 2  - 2.5" of outer insulation removed and the shrink wrap over all but the amount you need to solder or crimp.  I also just did the same with a wire stripper by "feel." I did not actually use a setting on it, but cut a little, loosened and rotated the lire and repeated several times to get a clean cut.  It was better than the exacto knife.  This tool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_stripper

Charger below

D4F: Charger 2 Wires.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:22pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

I did the exacto knife and it appears to be a red and a black wire. so it should be easier. Looks to be like two 28 AWG wires. were you able to strip those? I don't think mine goes that tiny.

EDIT: I tried the 22awg setting. It didn't cut at first but I was able to get in a little and then pull it off. It looks to be some loosely stranded wire. not nearly as thick at my other 22AWG.

How would I go about checking it on the DMM because it just looks flimsy? Im a newbie with the dmm so be as detailed as possible. ha.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:26pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

Or use the stripper as I edited the post above. I just treated the outside like it was insulation of a wire, cut around and pulled off the outside.  The only care is to cut arround on the outside and not cut through to the inner.  Great that you have 2 insulated wires.

My stripper will just about go to zero, but it does not work will as it gets smaller.  On the 26 and 28 awg I lay the insulated wire flat on a haard surface and roll the wire and I score across it with the exacto.  I am basically cutting the insulation circumferentially by rolling it under the knife.  If you cut too hard then you cut the copper and just start over.  Practice a time or two on the discarded end.

Nothing to check with the DMM.  Up a few I sent a wire gauge vss amperage chart.  Probably good down to 30 awg.  The only real check is continuity and a "pull test" after you solder or crimp.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:39pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

i updated my post above. any comments on that flimsy wire and the multimeter stuff?

how do you do a continuity test on that? I couldn't seem to get it to work. I get a reading when i probe both the red and black wire but it doesnt beep. am i supposed to probe the prongs?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 9:42pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller Instructions and How To Install PID on Gaggia & Steam
 

What do you want to check?  If you solder and shrink or crimp, then you can't check continuity, but check a mechanical pull.  You can then check the work by setting the DMM to DC volts and measuring 5V when you plugg the charger into the wall.  Hold the DMM probe to the bare wires with your fingers, one probe on each.  You will not feel or sense 5V output. Keep the wires separate to not short the charger. I just bend them apart or stick them to a piece of tape and then pinch a probe to the wire with my fingers.

Are you having fun :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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