D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:19pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
Burner0000 Said:
OK cool. I would just like to make sure That a regular PID will allow for set temps for both brew and temp so I don't have to set every time. I keep seeing deals like this that incl all but the wires for 15A which I have.
Your guess on those specs. Also no box to house it, but that is not necessary. OTOH, you have 110 - 240v available for touch in the back of the PID, its power supply.
All the wires...Not quite. The K thermocouple will not usually work. It has incorrect threads and you oftem would be better with a bare K probe without a sheath, just the insulated sheath. I sent you a flicker post earlier that shows the more typical wiring for power and wires to the SSR. The 15A that you refer to are for SSR output, not input. You also need a way to hook up the steam side. You can use a dc source or a second SSR AC-AC and wiring to and from that. You can also use a 9v battery. Most of that is covered in the Gaggia thread earlier. Most of PID portion of that thread is not very machine specific, but more common to the PID setup. Also the Silvia thread by Tasseloff.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:29pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
I am not sure that we understand the PID and alarm workings the same. If both functions are active, then you have stored parameters for the PID algorithms/.temperature and the alarm temperatures. The alarm temperatures are higher than the PID settings as the steam is hotter. The alarm circuit however is not energized so it cannot activate the SSR and override the PID with the "alarm." When you activate a circuit, with your steam switch, you supply energy to the alarm circuit and the preset temperatures find the circuit out of alarm limits and then control it.
Posted Wed Jan 2, 2013, 2:11pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
Thanks for the emails.
I would like to use for steam.
So if I am reading corrently the wires to power the PID tap into the on/off switch.
Thermostat leads are routed to the SSR (++) RTD leads from the PID sensor to the new RTD bolted onto the rancilio temp sensor.
The steam is where you lost me. one of the links shows having to bypass the steam thermostat but it's very complicated. Why are either of the thermostats needed if the element is powered by the SSR/PID?
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 2, 2013, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
Sorry if that was confusing. I think that the diagram showing dual setpoints implys that either setpoint output drives the SSR via the same output wires. The diagram below may help. This works for inexpensive PID controllers with a PID setpoint that outputs to the SSR and an alarm setpoint that may drive another device, alarm or in out case the SSR. It has its own output and you will need a dc voltage source or a second SSR AC-AC. You choose the alarm input and it functions as a switch to output what you input, AC or DC. There are also dual SSRs with basically 2 SSRs in one box.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 2, 2013, 2:50pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
The thermostats are not "needed" if you use the PID and alarm to control both brew and steam. You still have to complete the circuit and depending on your method some leave the steam thermostat in circuit and some take it out.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 2, 2013, 5:41pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
PID algorithms help idle and brew and are not needed/desired for steam. PID could slow steam down. Most, not all, of the PID controllers have PID function and alarm function both usable. Some can be either/or. The difficulty that I found with some of the generics was that the documentation was so poor that I could not tell whether I had to choose PID or on-off.
What are you trying to do that was not done on the CG references sent. One controller with PID algorithm for boiler and alarm for steam. You just need a DC source or an AC-AC SSR to pass through the alarm side which basically is an on-off switch with temperature control.
I am not sure whether you do not understand how it works, or want to do something different.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,191 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 2, 2013, 5:49pm Subject: Re: Advise on the best PID kit for Silvia V3
You want a PID controller that has PID and alarm, or PID and two alarms and to know that you can set the limit tempertures and types. You want the alarms to be set as "absolute low" alarms IIRC. Some are absolute high. Sounds strange until you see the PID language of high and low limits. I have the low limit higher than the high limit so that the temperature is controlled between two tempertures, not outside the temperature range.
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