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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > ECM Botticelli,...  
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coffeefromhell
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Posts: 16
Location: switzerland
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 3:09pm
Subject: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Hey folks,

I'm a machinist by trade & passion and a coffee lover...

my machine history includes old olympia, dalla corte and a few others but recently got an old ECM Botticelli from a friend of mine...

The ECM was a bit in a sorry state - especially the electronics board (it's the model which features a thermostat-controller... the thing worked by measuring the temp with a NTC Sensor and a couple of ICs, SMD stuff,  and a few relays, and other components...)
the board however was fried - and I tried to change the usual suspects (transformator, capacitors, relays,...) to no avail.
Now as a lot of the small SMD components (it's a multi-layer board) aren't even labelled and I had no intention to start un-soldering those tiny things I scapped the whole electric control-board and replaced it by a normal thermostat and 230V switches.

Also I have a PID controller on order (should arrive tomorrow or the day after) and want to make it quite precise.

but here's the thing... when I tested the machine with the simple thermostat (it's not precise enough and it's too slow - but it was just to test the new set up until the pid stuff arrives) I noticed a huge pressure build up during the heat up (goes to 10bar (to which I have set the relieve valve) and when I flush it there's steam and "wild" water coming out...
when this is done, it acts normal (heat up, coffee,...)...  however when I draw a lot of coffee and it starts to reheat a few times there's again too much pressure in it's "normal" state...

Now I wonder, as I have no schematics for the original wiring, if during heat up the magnetic pressure relieve valve is "open" as well... or if that's normal for the ECM (i don't think so)...

any input welcome...

thanks

Daniel
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,475
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 4:19pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Hi and welcome!

The machine should idle or normal state, stay at about 1 bar give or take a point or two.

Off hand I would guess that the temp system you have installed , isn't doing the job. I am on my phone so I can't look up your machine. Is it a heat exchanger or double boiler (I sont think it is a SBDU) but I don't know.

The PID should take care of the temp just fine when you get it. The best place for the sensor is in thw water in the boiler but you might not be able to do that so the side or end of the boiler would then have to do.

A heat exchanger type of machine normaly uses a pressure stat to control the temp by the pressure in the boiler. A double boiler usually has a thermostat, a pstat or in modern machines a PID type setup.

The safety valve should never open when the machine is operating correctly.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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coffee_no_sugar
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 352
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: pavoni pub, brasilia club
Grinder: mazzer sj, mdf, infinity
Drip: melitta clarity
Roaster: popcorn
Posted Wed Jun 27, 2012, 9:52am
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Daniel,

  Got the same machine a few weeks ago.  It had a missing drip tray, drip grid, lid and a foot.  The postal service broke the water tank and the power switch.  However, I didn't complain as I have been search ebay for a couple of years for a botticelli.  I made a couple of shots last weekend and they were both very good.  

   I also noticed a 10 bar pressure while the boiler was getting hot.  I assumed it was the thermal expansion of the water.  This is my first SBDU with a pressure gauge so I wouldn't know whether this is is unusual..  The water flow from the my group head was not steamy or wild.  The flow is very smooth.  There were 4 uniform streams of water from the group head.  The pressure while brewing was 9 bar.

   Too bad your gicar controller is broken.  

Wesley
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coffeefromhell
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Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Posts: 16
Location: switzerland
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Jun 30, 2012, 12:29pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Thanks for the input....


Today I had the PID controller in my PO Box ;)... finally...

and this is the result:
sorry for the mess... I have been experimenting to get the correct grind, tamper and stuff with the ECM... and I'm on quite a caffein-high (flash) at the moment ;) - well as the shots started to get better and better I simply couldn't bring myself to flush them down the drain...
and then there is always captain cook... damn that coffee...

put simply: the ECM Botticelli PID Version performs like a charm.... coffe is rich, fully textured the crema is thick and consistant,... the crema's texture & "bubble-size" is VERY fine and smooth...  and captain cook has an excellent flavor pulled from this machine.
I have to say I'm really amazed...

as you also can see I have chopped the steam wand off... I don't need it as I use a separate tool to froth the milk.
(I like my cappucinos around morning, but that's as much of a milk-drink I'll have... )

coffeefromhell: P1014168s2.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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coffeefromhell
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Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Posts: 16
Location: switzerland
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Jun 30, 2012, 12:30pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Second photo and addendum:

Forgotten to mention - the heat up problem I had was coming from the temperature "controller" I had installed previously... it was too damn un-precise and slow-acting and thus caused massive overheating... the PID has nicely taken care of that too.

coffeefromhell: P1014169s.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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coffee_no_sugar
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 352
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: pavoni pub, brasilia club
Grinder: mazzer sj, mdf, infinity
Drip: melitta clarity
Roaster: popcorn
Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012, 5:04pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Daniel,

 Using the wayback machine, the last reference to the Botticelli (original version) on the ecm website was 2001.  The Botticelli II was introduced 2001 and last appears on the ecm web site in 2006.    The original Botticelli is a nice machine but was probably too expensive for the market at that time.   The cost of the gicar controller, steam and water wands, nickel plated boiler would have made it more expensive to produce than the Silvia.  I don't know the retail price but I wouldn't be surprised if it approached a low-end HX machine.   From the parts diagram, the Botticelli II went to the cheaper and less precise button thermostats.  Production of the II stopped when ECM got out of the domestic machine market.

Wesley
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autso
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Botticelli ii
Grinder: Compak K3
Roaster: Behnor 1600, modded corn...
Posted Sun Dec 23, 2012, 4:01pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Daniel
I have a Botticelli II since new (around 2005) It's been great but recently lost brew temperature control.
Your PID looks like the perfect solution. Do you have details you could share like controller model and wiring diagram or pictures.

Thanks
Joe
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j_mattias
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Florence, IT
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Jul 17, 2013, 1:24am
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Hello,

I just bought an old ECM Bottoicelli (Casa Speciale as they are known here in berlin), and I'm having some trouble with the machine, specifically it is only heating up about 50% of the time. Took the lid off and none of the wiring looks loose (I'm no expert though), does this sound like an electrical problem or is the heater bust? Any advice would be appreciated...

Thanks!
justin
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autso
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Botticelli ii
Grinder: Compak K3
Roaster: Behnor 1600, modded corn...
Posted Wed Jul 17, 2013, 2:44pm
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

I have a botticelli II since  new and had numerous wiring problems  I have since rewired and replaced thermal switches with a PT 100 temp sensor and pid controller  The wire feeding the element would overheat with obvious discolouration and was disconnected. If it is heating up at all, I don't think it is the element. Use the steam switch. If it heats appropriately the element is fine. It would then be your wire or your internal temperature switch. There are two temperature switches inside. One controls brew temperature and the other steam temperature. There is also a resettable safety switch. I sourced them locally at an espresso repair place $8 each. I assume it is not the temperature indicator
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peterd
Junior Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Arnhem
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jan 28, 2014, 2:46am
Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
 

Hello Autso,

Do you have wiring information or a schematic of your pid controller? I have some temp issues with my ECM botticelli II and like to install a PID.

Thanks in advance,

Peter
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