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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:44am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

You will need a few wire sets and a way to keep them straight.  You could use multiple colors, but if you went out and purchased wires, then one color is likely.  All wires adequately insulated and connected, solder or crimped.  You will be mixing water and electricity, at least in the same container/machine.

I set of 14 awg high temperature load wires between SSR and stat wires.  You are replacing the B-stat which has 2 male spades.  I used ring connectors at the SSR end and female spades at the B-stat wire end.

Assumed that the SSR is screw in connectors that will use ring connectors, or clamp wire.

I used about 2’ lengths (24 or 26 awg), and on Gaggia that was a little long, easy enough to coil.

Pair 1) PID Power wires with piggyback at one end and bare at the other.  Tape with a small piece of tape to identify as PID Power.  You will piggyback to the front “power on” switch and to the incoming opposite leg at the back plug

Pair 2) PID to SSR wires, bare PID end and ring connector or bare at the SSR end.  Mark the pair and decide the positive and put in a diode at the SSR end, note diode direction.

Pair 3) Wires from the power supply, or battery, to the SSR.  The Positive side goes up to the PID, and then back to SSR positive.  You manually switch this wire with the steam switch, or in my case on here with the brew switch, and then activate the alarm circuit.  The alarm circuit in the PID is always trying to drive the SSR, but has no circuit until you activate the switch.  This wire needs a diode at the SSR and connects with the PID SSR output positive wire like the Skene diagram.  Also looks somewhat like the shortened version shown a couple posts above.  The negative side goes over to the SSR, or to the negative side SSR wire, input side.  The negative wire will usually end up being short, but the positive side goes to the PID and back to the SSR.  You can shorten the Negative side wire and add to the Positive side, perhaps from the PID out to the SSR.

Pair 4) The Sensor wires, sensor or thermocouple to PID

You may need a ground wire depending on machine.

Option pair) Repeat similar to pair above if you choose to use all 3 functions.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 524
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:45am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

When you mention power for the alarm and the use of the cell phone charger, do you happen to know the input? Or do you cut the wire and solder it? I didn't see it in the pid description or at least not that i recognized.

As for the wires into the connector, it sounds like electrical tape would be fine?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 10:58am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

Connectors are best found in electronic stores.  Piggyback spades were the most difficult to find and if you do not find them in electronic supplies, then Auto stores, such as

Click Here (www.oreillyauto.com)

I used 1/4" spades and got some for 14 awg and some for 22 awg.  You might get by with one size, probably has to be the 14 as the smaller are difficult to open enough and make the connections.  That means that you will solder 26 awg  into a 14 awg hole.

I used a small shrink wrap/tubing, one size that would just go over the 22 awg spade back end, and one size that would go over the female 1/4" spade.  I had most of this stuff already, so did not buy it.  I have a couple of electronic stroes and can find most of the supplies one stop.

One final note is that you need to know enough about soldering and have a fairly high wattage to solder 14 awg.  That wire can absorb a lot of heat and solder if not careful.  Easy enough to cut off and start over a joint as you learn, but you will need  heat.

Perhaps now best to wait for any questions or interest :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:09am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

brianl Said:

When you mention power for the alarm and the use of the cell phone charger, do you happen to know the input? Or do you cut the wire and solder it? I didn't see it in the pid description or at least not that i recognized.

As for the wires into the connector, it sounds like electrical tape would be fine?

Posted February 19, 2013 link

Input?  Cell phone charger will be turned on by the switches, blind to you.  My steam switch turns on a charger that puts DC voltage to the SSR and powers the system.  While the charger is "on" its signal to the SSR is controlled by the alarm settings.  Same for brew heat, all I do is use the brew switch.

http://www.skenedesign.com/Silvia/

I corresponded with Skene and his system is still going strong after many years and no failure of components, no problems.  This part system adds a couple of <$1.00 diodes and cheap power suplies.

Input?  Perhaps you mean something like this.  I run AC power off of the switches to the Chargers.  A little massage of the 1/4" spades and they fit the AC plug tabs of the chargers.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:12am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

brianl Said:

As for the wires into the connector, it sounds like electrical tape would be fine?

Posted February 19, 2013 link

I am not a fan, but YMMV.  Electrical tape seems to unwrap and get sticky, so I use electrical shrink tube.  Now available even at Harbor Freight.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 524
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 8:59am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

thanks for the tips.

Is the installation similar to those guides that Auber has? I've seen one for the installation of the kit with the steam with the pictures.

I'm trying to decide between the kit and using your method. I have a 30 watt soldering iron but I just wanted to make sure this is good enough as it has been for all my other projects. The auber site mentions setting up the PID as being the hardest part but i'm not so sure what that entails. It seems to me that the biggest difference is just solder joint/crimp wires yourself. Similar to this reference material below? Or do you have something better as a reference material. Even though I have an idea of what i'm doing, I still like the step by step guides. haha

Click Here (www.basicxandrobotics.com)

This seems to be similar to what was used in the kit photo of the wires or am i mistaken? For the connectors (solderless?).
Click Here (www.amazon.com)

sorry, I like to measure 10 times before i cut, so to speak.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:36am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Ok, Mr Cut Once  :)

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/phi655042.jpg

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/phi655021.jpg

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/phi654021.jpg

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/phi654041.jpg

I found small packages of these in an electronics store.  They were Philmore brand.  I also already had assorted connectors like you show, but I used the NON-insulated to solder and then used shrink tube to insulate.  You could also crimp if you are good at it and trust that.

To "measure again"  here is a photo of actual parts used taken to help another user with a repair.  It shows a 22awg female into a slightly spread 14 awg male.  By the way, I also measure at least twice before cutting once :)

D4F: Spades.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:02am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

I am not sure about the 30 watt iron, but if you look at the 14 awg connector and a 14 awg wire and think of soldering them together, I doubt that the 30 watt will be enough.  You could probably crimp those and use the solderless insulated.  You can probably crimp them all for that matter.  My problem with crimp is that I had 26 awg for the small wire and 22 awg connectors and that makes for a poor crimp.  OTOH, it makes the wire bundle easy to deal with.  The bundle where all wires come together to go to the controller.  If you choose wire and connectors to match, then you can probably crimp all connections, or crimp the large and solder the small.  I doubt that the Auber ones are soldered, but that is how I did it.

If you have seen the Auber diagram, then you should know that it is very easy.  I spent more time on making up the wires than on the connections, by a lot.

The Auber kit has the 1/32 DIN controller and one alarm.  I wanted two alarms as noted.  I started with the 1/32 DIN and used the single alarm to see if I could get the brew heat to work.  If you read much of the thread you realize that it was just an idea in the beginning.  Silly me thought that I could do without steam control.  I got the 1/16 DIN controller after I figured it out and wanted two alarms.  I emailed back and forth with Suyi to determine which 1/16 DIN controller would do what was needed.  If you do not care about adding heat with brew, then the kit is fine, but it doen not have the extra alarm and you will pay to have the wires made up for you.

You already have the step by step for steam, but that is for steam the proprietary way.  The Auber kit with steam gets a DC voltage from the controller to use with the alarm and that function is not offered on the standard controllers.  That is why a 9v battery or the Skene method.  Once you have seen the diagram and understand the basics the rest is easy.  Happy to walk you through it.

I also should have noted that in addition to the regular spade connectors, that I used ring connectors at the SSR.  You can use your assorted pack, or drill out a flat spade.  I had the assortment and heated off the insulation, soldered, and heat shrink.

The wiring is actually simple!

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:15am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

One other comment about the kit.  I did not actually see one except the pictures and a diagram that sounds like what you have found.  I believe that it is good quality, but not cheap.  A controller is about $35-$45 depending on which, a RTD sensor $25 and SSR $15 from Auber and can be less, ebay.  The other expense is not much unless you buy every part.  I bought 14 awg silicone wire from a hobby shop, used for high amp battery packs and very high temperature insulation.  That was about $5 IIRC and perhaps $10 of connectors.  I had old cell phone chargers for DC voltages and I had diodes from other projects.  Diodes are about $1 for the 3 you use.

I ended up with a reasonable priced system, working will for about 1 year not without problems and have PID controlled idle and alarm controlled steam and additional brew heat.  Three functions for about $100, and the learning experience and understanding the machine, priceless :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 2:27pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

brianl Said:

When you mention power for the alarm and the use of the cell phone charger, do you happen to know the input? Or do you cut the wire and solder it? I didn't see it in the pid description or at least not that i recognized.

As for the wires into the connector, it sounds like electrical tape would be fine?

Posted February 19, 2013 link

Cell phone chargers and connections with photos on page 16 here, 2 back.  There is more description on page 16 as well.  You can trace out the circuit, how it works, on the Skene diagram.  Basically, an existing switch turns on power to the charger, and the DC output goes to the SSR.  Negative goes to SSR negative and Positive goes to the controller, through the alarm for temperature control, and then to the Positive SSR via a diode to keep circuits from interferring with each other.

At the charger, I cut off its output at about 6" and add spade connectors.  I then connect to the wires described above.  I can easily remove a charger if needed as it is "plugged in" for input and output.  Easy to swap out if ever needed.  Again noted, Skene has used his for years.  Charger output can be from about 4-32V DC, the SSR input range.

As the Auber system, mine is completely removable and usable on another machine.  Only removable spade connectors actually contact the machine, and the SSR is held by a single bolt through a vent hole.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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