coffeefromhell Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2012 Posts: 8 Location: switzerland Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 3:09pm Subject: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Hey folks,
I'm a machinist by trade & passion and a coffee lover...
my machine history includes old olympia, dalla corte and a few others but recently got an old ECM Botticelli from a friend of mine...
The ECM was a bit in a sorry state - especially the electronics board (it's the model which features a thermostat-controller... the thing worked by measuring the temp with a NTC Sensor and a couple of ICs, SMD stuff, and a few relays, and other components...) the board however was fried - and I tried to change the usual suspects (transformator, capacitors, relays,...) to no avail. Now as a lot of the small SMD components (it's a multi-layer board) aren't even labelled and I had no intention to start un-soldering those tiny things I scapped the whole electric control-board and replaced it by a normal thermostat and 230V switches.
Also I have a PID controller on order (should arrive tomorrow or the day after) and want to make it quite precise.
but here's the thing... when I tested the machine with the simple thermostat (it's not precise enough and it's too slow - but it was just to test the new set up until the pid stuff arrives) I noticed a huge pressure build up during the heat up (goes to 10bar (to which I have set the relieve valve) and when I flush it there's steam and "wild" water coming out... when this is done, it acts normal (heat up, coffee,...)... however when I draw a lot of coffee and it starts to reheat a few times there's again too much pressure in it's "normal" state...
Now I wonder, as I have no schematics for the original wiring, if during heat up the magnetic pressure relieve valve is "open" as well... or if that's normal for the ECM (i don't think so)...
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,655 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 4:19pm Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Hi and welcome!
The machine should idle or normal state, stay at about 1 bar give or take a point or two.
Off hand I would guess that the temp system you have installed , isn't doing the job. I am on my phone so I can't look up your machine. Is it a heat exchanger or double boiler (I sont think it is a SBDU) but I don't know.
The PID should take care of the temp just fine when you get it. The best place for the sensor is in thw water in the boiler but you might not be able to do that so the side or end of the boiler would then have to do.
A heat exchanger type of machine normaly uses a pressure stat to control the temp by the pressure in the boiler. A double boiler usually has a thermostat, a pstat or in modern machines a PID type setup.
The safety valve should never open when the machine is operating correctly.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Wed Jun 27, 2012, 9:52am Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Daniel,
Got the same machine a few weeks ago. It had a missing drip tray, drip grid, lid and a foot. The postal service broke the water tank and the power switch. However, I didn't complain as I have been search ebay for a couple of years for a botticelli. I made a couple of shots last weekend and they were both very good.
I also noticed a 10 bar pressure while the boiler was getting hot. I assumed it was the thermal expansion of the water. This is my first SBDU with a pressure gauge so I wouldn't know whether this is is unusual.. The water flow from the my group head was not steamy or wild. The flow is very smooth. There were 4 uniform streams of water from the group head. The pressure while brewing was 9 bar.
coffeefromhell Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2012 Posts: 8 Location: switzerland Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Jun 30, 2012, 12:29pm Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Thanks for the input....
Today I had the PID controller in my PO Box ;)... finally...
and this is the result: sorry for the mess... I have been experimenting to get the correct grind, tamper and stuff with the ECM... and I'm on quite a caffein-high (flash) at the moment ;) - well as the shots started to get better and better I simply couldn't bring myself to flush them down the drain... and then there is always captain cook... damn that coffee...
put simply: the ECM Botticelli PID Version performs like a charm.... coffe is rich, fully textured the crema is thick and consistant,... the crema's texture & "bubble-size" is VERY fine and smooth... and captain cook has an excellent flavor pulled from this machine. I have to say I'm really amazed...
as you also can see I have chopped the steam wand off... I don't need it as I use a separate tool to froth the milk. (I like my cappucinos around morning, but that's as much of a milk-drink I'll have... )
coffeefromhell Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2012 Posts: 8 Location: switzerland Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Jun 30, 2012, 12:30pm Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Second photo and addendum:
Forgotten to mention - the heat up problem I had was coming from the temperature "controller" I had installed previously... it was too damn un-precise and slow-acting and thus caused massive overheating... the PID has nicely taken care of that too.
Posted Sun Jul 1, 2012, 5:04pm Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Daniel,
Using the wayback machine, the last reference to the Botticelli (original version) on the ecm website was 2001. The Botticelli II was introduced 2001 and last appears on the ecm web site in 2006. The original Botticelli is a nice machine but was probably too expensive for the market at that time. The cost of the gicar controller, steam and water wands, nickel plated boiler would have made it more expensive to produce than the Silvia. I don't know the retail price but I wouldn't be surprised if it approached a low-end HX machine. From the parts diagram, the Botticelli II went to the cheaper and less precise button thermostats. Production of the II stopped when ECM got out of the domestic machine market.
Posted Sun Dec 23, 2012, 4:01pm Subject: Re: ECM Botticelli, fixing and pimping... one question
Daniel I have a Botticelli II since new (around 2005) It's been great but recently lost brew temperature control. Your PID looks like the perfect solution. Do you have details you could share like controller model and wiring diagram or pictures.
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