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Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling via 3-way directional solenoid valve
 

hahah if im gonna tear into the machine and replaces valves and add tubing etc, i think i'll just spend the extra few bucks for the solenoid.  hahah imagining manually turning a valve(and installing a cheapie manual valve and likely having upgraditis and wanting a solenoid later) is kinda silly to me.  

btw, regarding the tubing from the pump to the boiler(and all the tubing im gonna have to get), is silicon gonna be good enough to hold the pressure and deal with the bit of heat that the boiler is gonna put out(the tubing will be before the boiler but imagine the connection will heat up).

i'm looking into teflon tubing now.  i really shouldnt need more than about a foot of it anyways.  i noticed that espressoparts.com sells a regular silicon tube for the type of connection i need but then i see places like partsguru selling teflon tubing.   i'll probably be safer with teflon...bleh.  more money.  maybe i should just go with a manual switch afterall hahah.  nooo! :P


oh and regarding the pressure reading from the steam wand, im hoping it will be somewhat accurate.   the plan is to put a puck of coffee into the portafilter or maybe find a blind basket that will fit and measure the pressure at the steam wand with it completely open.    another option maybe is to connect a T before the boiler and after the shuttle valve and hook it up directly to a pressure gauge.   It might get pretty tight in the casing.  

But then this will measure before the boiler and it wont give me brewhead pressure, right?

Maybe the portafilter mounted pressure gauge may be the best bet(although, in my head, i feel like i'd be getting the same pressure by measuring the steam wand).  Problem with this is added cost as i'd need to get the spouted unpressurized portafilter for about another 60 bucks then another gauge for 10+ bucks.   bah...your manual valve idea is getting more tempting now.  hahaha
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 2:30pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling via 3-way directional solenoid valve
 

btw
total extraction time = ~20-30+ seconds

solenoid switching = 6-10 milliseconds
hand switching = umm...  hahaha
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wsikes
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wsikes
Joined: 3 Oct 2011
Posts: 396
Location: West Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Promac MD-64 AT
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

I was wondering about the tubing issue also.  Let us know what you come up with.  It should also work for the steam wand pressure gauge... at least that is my guess.

 
Bill
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

wsikes Said:

I was wondering about the tubing issue also.  Let us know what you come up with.  It should also work for the steam wand pressure gauge... at least that is my guess.

Posted May 17, 2012 link

ok a did a bit of research on tubing.

as far as heat, silicon brand, silicone and teflon(ptfe) tubing shouldnt have any problem with the temperatures that we are dealing with.  i believe the standard silicone stuff can withstand 350F and the silicon stuff can do 500F.  Teflon also can be used at a continuous 500F temperature.

the issue then comes to pressure.  Silicon and most silicone tubing will burst at a fairly low pressure that would not work for our espresso pump pressures.  Reinforced silicone will however be ideal.  The Silbrade Reinforced silicone tubing with a 1/8" ID has a working pressure of 233psi(about 16bar) and a burst PSI of 699.   Teflon will burst at about 965psi in the 1/8" ID.
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,007
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

I have been reading with interest. I thought that some of the Gaggias that used the silicone with braid reinforcement had leak problems at the connections.  The difficulty is the clamp/tubing/hardpoint connection.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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wsikes
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wsikes
Joined: 3 Oct 2011
Posts: 396
Location: West Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Promac MD-64 AT
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 6:58pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

Frank, did you decide on a pressure gauge?  I'm wondering if you are thinking liquid-filled, or dry?

 
Bill
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

so far, i'm in the process of locating the parts.

Ordered:
1/8" reinforced silicone tubing
proper sized worm gear hose clamps
1/8" npt to 1/8" barb brass fittings


i've inquired to a local component company about pricing and obtaining the shuttle valve.  I also found it online for about 41 bucks.  I'm hoping i can find it cheaper local.

also, i'm checking when chris's coffee is gonna get more of those beefy OPVs back in stock.  if not anytime soon, i may go with the isomac or something else.

the most difficult thing is trying to find the proper 3-way directional solenoid valve.  the link i posted above is to the factory and i dont think i can get small quantities of them.  argh.
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

wsikes Said:

Frank, did you decide on a pressure gauge?  I'm wondering if you are thinking liquid-filled, or dry?

Posted May 17, 2012 link

hey bill, i just got the cheap one that the guy in the video got, from lowe's(shaky dry one that goes to 11 bar).  i do want a liquid filled gauge though...

it'll be an easy thing to swap out once i get the steam wand hookup working.  

i'm hoping my silvia wand from espressoparts ships soon.  for now, without that, i'm stuck on the pressure gauge front.
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Thu May 17, 2012, 9:45pm
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

just sent off an email to the 3-way directional solenoid company.   worst case, maybe i can find others interested in obtaining the solenoid to qualify for their minimum orders.
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Fri May 18, 2012, 2:23am
Subject: Re: Pressure Profiling Mod - (originally "What kind of valve do i need?")
 

i saw on their site that there is a min order of 100.  :|

so after scouring the web some more, i've only found TWO items that fit my needs.  

this mcmaster product Click Here (www.mcmaster.com)

and this asco Click Here (valvesandinstruments.com)

i didnt realize how much these things would cost.  ugh.  about a hundred bucks.  the mcmaster is about 20 bucks cheaper so i went with that one.  they're also sorta local to me(santa fe springs) so it works out a bit better.


so...now i need the OPV(waiting on chris') and the shuttle valve(waiting on local quote or just order online).  looks like i have at least about 60-70 more bucks to spend before i have everything i need.  ugh.  


all in all, it looks like it's gonna cost about 200 dollars just in parts to get this working.  ugh.  it's painful to add it up.


time for bed.  it's be a long day with this pressure profiling nonsense.
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