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Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Gaggia Classic...  
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csader
Senior Member


Joined: 6 May 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Round Rock, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:49am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

For posterity's sake:

The issue I ran into was that I piggybacked my iPhone charger prong alongside the stock wire to the steam switch (the one that receives 120v when switched on), when i should have removed the stock switch and replaced it with the iPhone charger prong wire. Works great now.
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csader
Senior Member


Joined: 6 May 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Round Rock, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jun 15, 2014, 12:07pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

At D4F's request, here is a list of the components and (most of) the prices:

I over-purchased in some cases (spades, etc.), but I would rather have too many than too few. I also likely over-paid for some parts and wire, but I had difficulty finding some of the wire locally and it was more convenient to order all the major parts from Auber.

PID: SYL-2362 from Auber - $43.55
SSR: MGR-1D4825 25A SSR from Auber - $15.00
RTD: PT100M4 RTD from Auber - $25.00

14 awg wire (10ft): From Amazon - $13.99 (seems to be unavailable as of this posting)
22 awg wire (20ft): From Amazon - $15.99

14 awg piggybacks: $2.50 from local electronics supply
22 awg piggybacks: $2.50 from local electronics supply
14 awg female spades: $1.50 from local electronics supply
22 awg female spades: $1.50 from local electronics supply
22 awg male spades: $1.50 from local electronics supply
14 awg fork spades: $1.50 from local electronics supply
22 awg fork spades: $1.50 from local electronics supply
Heat-shrink tubing, 2 sizes: $3.00 from local electronics supply

Knock-off iPhone chargers (2pk): From eBay - $4.95
NTE116 Diode (1N4001 equivalen) - Local Fry's - $0.69 x 3

Project total (not including Auber shipping): $136.05
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Vpl
Senior Member


Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia classic PID
Grinder: Baratza vario
Roaster: Georgio, klatch, blue bottle
Posted Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:30pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Hi  I'm new to the forum but I did D4F's mod with the 1/16 din auber unit and I set up the 2 alarms one for brew and one for steam. It has been working great so far. So thanks D4F for all your research and explanations, I was able to figure it all out by reading and re-reading. Is the SV offset the same for everyone? You have mentioned you like a SV of 214 f. Do you find that 214 corresponds to a grouphead temp of 200? And by the same rationale would a SV of 216 correspond to 202?
Also has anyone done a comparison of these modded classics to other machines? If so how do they compare?i know this is very subjective but I am still curious.

Thanks

Vinny
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,007
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jun 26, 2014, 2:24pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Vinny, I will post a more thorough reply once my account has been reactivated so that I can access it from my computer. That is being done as we communicate. I am currently set at 212° no longer at 214°. I found that I had some overheating problems. You will need a thermal filter to determine what is coming out, or you can do it by taste. The actual thermal filter temperature is also affected by pre-brew steam blip. I will follow with another reply hopefully shortly.
From my iPhone.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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jonr
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 295
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Thu Jun 26, 2014, 2:58pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Additionally, your brew temperature (as seen by the coffee) will vary with room temperature, air movement and the temperature of the coffee grounds prior to brew.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,007
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jun 26, 2014, 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

PID controllers and sensors can be a little off, (so no, your is not mine wrt to actual number values) and can be calibrated using ice water and boiling and corrections for elevation...  That said, for the most part you can find your SV by starting at about 212 - 214F using that Auber PID.  If no thermofilter, move up or down to suit taste.  You will need a routine of about 3+ seconds of steam switch on followed by about that of steam switch off and then brew with your setup.

Yes, as Jonr notes there are other factors such as ambient temp and air movement that can change group and group water temperature, but only little.

In practice, I do not usually move temperature on the PID unless I change coffee and then decide based on taste.  I might first alter the steam blip and wait to get a little hotter or cooler and see if taste is affected.

At SV of 214F I was getting 200F - 201F in the thermofilter.  An old suggestion for the Coffee that I use primarily, Redbird Blue Jaguar was 199F.  I don't believe that I see a recommended temp any longer, but that had been suggested by the roaster.  I moved the SV down and thought the taste better.

Within limits of ambient temperature and your technique consistency, the SV and group water should change about the same, meaning that in the narrow coffee range, the offset is fairly constant.  You will be the biggest variable :)

The comparison to other machines for temperature is by thermofilter.  I can get no drop of intrashot temperature during the brews, or if enough heat added, even raise the temperature.  I believe from reading that a bit of intrashot drop may be favored, part of why I lowered the brew alarm temperatures, and as always, taste counts and in that YMMV :)

Brew alarm temperatures are very brew volume specific.

You should have minimum 15 minutes warm up and with the PF and basket in place.

It is great to actually hear that the information has been used. Very few questions or comments from those who use the mods.

Happy to answer, especially now that I can log n from my PC :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Vpl
Senior Member


Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia classic PID
Grinder: Baratza vario
Roaster: Georgio, klatch, blue bottle
Posted Sun Jul 6, 2014, 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Thanks again. Have you found that running water through the grouphead  like to pre warm a cup can be a substitute for the steam switch? I realize that this may be counter intuitive, I have been avoiding the steam blip because I feel the espresso was more bitter that way. I've been waiting a bit after warming a cup and starting my shot. Also what is your alarm set to currently? I've been doing 236 for the high and 237 for low, is that too high?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,007
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Jul 6, 2014, 9:02pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

I never use a flush or run water through the grouphead.  The brew alarm settings are not going to add heat at a rate fast enough to overcome the cooling of incoming water.

My current settings with a brew weight of about 28 - 30 gms

P      2.9
I      100
D      25

SouF left at 0.2

SV at 212F for redbird Blue Jaguar and I was at 214F for redbird Espresso.  Jeff at redbird recommended Blue Jag at 198 – 199F at the puck and Espresso at 200F.  I now use 212 and if Redbird Espresso, I use about 3 seconds steam blip and 3 – 4 seconds rest, adding more heat that way and not resetting.  Once you are close, taste is the fine adjustment.  You can skip the thermofilter unless curious, as those numbers will get you close enough to adjust by taste, and far closer than most Gaggia users.

For about 25 – 35 gm brew I would use alarm high at 224 and alarm low at 225F.  I will assume that you understand the hi and low setting using the “low” as the higher number unless you ask further.

Steam alarm at high of 295 and low of 296F, or 299 and 300F.

Hope this is helpful. Feel free to ask, but brew alarm settings are volume/weight dependent.  What is your brewed espresso weight?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Vpl
Senior Member


Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia classic PID
Grinder: Baratza vario
Roaster: Georgio, klatch, blue bottle
Posted Tue Jul 8, 2014, 7:22pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

I try to brew about 50 ml. About 1.7 oz.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,007
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jul 15, 2014, 9:28am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

Any changes, improvement.  At 50 ml of liquid after crema dissipates, that would be about 50 gms.  You could even be a little low on alarm temperatures.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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