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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Sestos PID with...  
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Dec 14, 2011, 10:02pm
Subject: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

Well I had an unused Saeco Aroma around, so I couldn't help but buy one of the Sestos PID kits on the auction site with thermocouple, and SSR for $40 shipped.

The wiring and connectors took an hour or so to make up, but here's how it is connected:

The PID (which seems like an Auber like unit) is connected to the power switch and comes on when the machine is turned on.

The PID SSR outputs go to the SSR inputs.

The SSR outputs go to the wires that did go to the 2nd tstat in the Aroma.

So the 2nd tstat in the aroma is still there, but no wires going to it. The reason I mention 2nd, is that the first sort of worked for brew temps, but the steam didn't work. Putting the wires back onto tstat1, and taking the wires from tstat2 and attaching to the SSR displays (works?) and allows steam to function.

K type thermocouple is fitted under tstat anchor clips.

Monitoring of the brew boiler is working, but the PID autotune went first for an hour, then for a couple of hours, so it's not doing so well with that. I've kept most of the default settings, but am also having trouble just getting it to allow me to manually up or down the temperature.

Currently it's in pid mode, but with run mode enabled (default is run mode inhibited).

I've seen one other Saeco pid install, but it was on a Barista, not an Aroma, and that Barista only had one thermostat, so here is clearly a difference with the Aroma and the Barista, which I previously thought were the same inside.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Dec 15, 2011, 12:13am
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

OK, got it up and running, and it is sweet! I haven't figured out the exact offset yet, but it's now in temp mode, and it uses the default PID parameters to pulse back to target. Currently overshooting a few degrees, but settling in within a minute or so.

In addition to PID mode, you can just go auto mode, where it will go full bore to reach the set temp, but likely overshoot even more.

Now I just need a project box, and have to lengthen some wires.

If anyone has this same kit, I'd be pleased to share how I've set mine up on the Aroma. Best $40 I've spent on espresso HW yet!
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Jaytxvo
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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Malden, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: V60 - 01
Roaster: Redbird, Barismo, Counter...
Posted Thu Dec 15, 2011, 7:55am
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

I am really interested in your set up, can you take some pics? I wasn't aware there was a cheap pid for purchase, I thought everything was up in the 150 range.
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Dec 15, 2011, 9:45am
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

Sure, I'll try to take some photos this weekend. The pid kits on the auction site are well priced and so far working well, along with their included SSR and thermocouple.
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 11:14pm
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

Here's a photo of the PID working - will be looking for a sheath for the wiring, and an enclosure for the pid over the holidays. The wiring easily fits from the top compartment through the cutout for the water inlet, then behind the tank, and under the tanks groove at the bottom, but a nice sheath would keep it all tidy. Plenty of mounting space for the SSR within the machine, or externally.

http://matsumura.smugmug.com

then to the Photography folder, then the pid_stuff folder
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adan0327
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adan0327
Joined: 6 Sep 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: la cimbali m32 dosatron 3...
Grinder: Astoria Super Jolly
Vac Pot: hario tc2
Drip: chemex, v60,kalitta...
Roaster: Lol.... Pan :D
Posted Sun Dec 18, 2011, 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

I have the same PID on my gran gaggia. It works fine. Don't worry about the overshoot too much because it doesn't really affect the water temperature correspondingly as it would seem. Every morning it does overshoot above the setpoint for like the first 15 minutes but then it stabilizes after. It will go in .1 degree cycles. I wasted my time trying to do set up PID manually...its not worth it. Autotune is good enough...trust me. Example the setpoint on mine right now is 100.2 but it will go 100.1-100.3 Celcius which isn't that bad. Actually I'm selling my machine tommorow to some guy on craigslist. Recently just got a kitchen aid dual boiler and gonna add 2 PIDs and a digital timer. Its gonna be sweet. Actually just installed the silvia steam wand today ;D.

A good tip:
Add a preheat coil with 1/4" copper tubing the temperature drop will be substantially less. I see people without the preheat coil and there dropping a good 6-9 degrees celcius. I'm only dropping .5C because of the preheat coil. It acts similarly to the concept of an HX works but on the outside of the boiler in this case.
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sun Dec 18, 2011, 11:19pm
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

I'm having great success with my setup the way it is. I will be doing a few other machines with similar setups over the holidays. thanks.
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Jaytxvo
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Malden, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: V60 - 01
Roaster: Redbird, Barismo, Counter...
Posted Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

having no experience with wiring, how would you suggest I take on installing this pid? Does it come with instructions?

looking at the pics I am confused...do I need any special tools to do this?

I am also wondering what the temp you get when the brew light goes on and how much higher does it climb after that.

I had no luck finding this kit on those sites. If you would kindly send me an email directing me to the right location that would be great. Jaytxvo@gmail.com
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ampguy
Senior Member
ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

Hi Jay,

It does take a bit of wiring, about an hours worth, no harder than a car stereo install. If that sounds difficult, you might want to get a machine with built-in PID like a CC1, which I also have, and is great.

To find these, just go to your ebay and type in ssr pid and look for a $39 shipped version with K thermocouple. These units are not *exactly* like the Aubers though. While 99% of the parameters appear to be the same as do the cosmetics, the ebay Sestos unit I have does not seem to want to go to Fahr mode, just C, which is fine for me, but may not be for others.

Also, the Auber instructions are much better, and I would presume support as well. Jim at pidkits.com also is known to have great products and support.

It's probably good, unless you like to tweak things to a) go with a pid machine - CC1, BDB, etc. or b) to go with a US pid kit supplier like Auber, Pidkits, etc. to get some support and machine specific stuff (mounts, manuals, etc.).

If you do decide to DIY, and have a Saeco or similar, I can try to help you wire it up with info. here. The unit auto-tunes, and then let's you adjust to taste. If you want to calibrate it further, you might want to get a scace unit or at least do some tests with the paper cup method. But be sure not to tell anyone you used the paper cup method, or they will ridicule you ;)
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Jaytxvo
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Malden, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: V60 - 01
Roaster: Redbird, Barismo, Counter...
Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011, 5:45am
Subject: Re: Sestos PID with Saeco Aroma - questions on PID interface
 

I decided to get the pid kit from ebay. I hope you can help me wire it up once I get it.
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