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Espresso: Espresso Mods and Restorations
Yet another Silvia mod..

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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Yet another...

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mani
Senior Member

Joined: 7 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Stockholm
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Campak K3 Touch

Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011, 7:43am Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

Bezel is made by Electronic Assembly http://www.lcd-module.com/products/accessories.html Regarding the reference, you don't need to use the internal. You can generate an external reference voltage of 1.5V or anything you like.

Nathan
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Location: Montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia v3
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Hario

Posted Sat Mar 12, 2011, 12:55pm Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

So based on your information here, the stock Silvia operates somewhere between 85 and 100 Celsius? I'm trying to tune my Linux PID now, and its reading output so far is much much higher, so I might have to make some changes.

Nathan
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Location: Montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia v3
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Hario

Posted Tue Mar 15, 2011, 7:37pm Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

Did you implement a offset for the temperature? I read that usually it needs to be about 25F higher temperature because the outer boiler temperature registers higher heat than the interior (water)? see here

mani
Senior Member

Joined: 7 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Stockholm
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Campak K3 Touch

Posted Sun Mar 20, 2011, 9:49am Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

I did not implement an offset but maybe I should. I am now using 97 Celsius outer boiler temperature as my setpoint but haven't had the time to fine tune it yet.

Nathan
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Location: Montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia v3
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Hario

Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011, 6:21am Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

Okay, because according to the link I posted, it would mean your water is actually only 84degrees Celcius. I really don't personally know though, I've never worked with a PID and I don't have a accurate measurement device for my own calibrations.

mani
Senior Member

Joined: 7 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Stockholm
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Campak K3 Touch

Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011, 6:57am Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

Yes, it might be a bit cold if my setup has the same offset as the other pidkit. I need to experiment with higher temperatures when there is time. But I am not sure that my offset will be the same since I measured a maximum of 102C without PID which is only 216F. Is the original Silvia really that cold?

Nathan
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 148
Location: Montreal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia v3
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Hario

Posted Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:29pm Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

Good point. Surely it could go in the other direction if you assume their offset is the same. And since the suggested offset of 14C is more than the entire band of useable temperature (85-96=11C) for coffee, you can easily overshoot. I'm looking at some PID kits that use a thermocouple, which doesn't mean that their readings are the same as mine at all. The only way to escape assumptions would be to measure. :-\

mani
Senior Member

Joined: 7 Mar 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Stockholm
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Campak K3 Touch

Posted Mon Mar 28, 2011, 3:32am Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

But how to measure the actual inner boiler temperature? Just measure the temp of the water that comes out in the cup or what?

Mudinyoureye
Senior Member

Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Location: New York City
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Mar 31, 2011, 1:48pm Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

What a lovely piece of work, mani. About 15 years ago I worked to develop a PID control system for heat treating furnaces, +-10F at 1500F! It never occurred to me that my Silvia was simple ballistic (just like my high priced lousy Viking oven) and I could improve performance with PID. I totally refuse to build one from scratch as you did but would be most interested in anything in kit form. Got any tips? You want to make them for customers? Results from my Silvia vary, and controlling the many variables is always a chore, we each have our little secrets I suspect; tamping pressure, grind size, humidity, water temperature and pressure, on and on. My goal is not to be a barista, rather to reproduce the same thing (good quality) each time. I'll keep posted here and hope that you come up with a simpler solution for the likes of me. miye

Bluedogbrewery
Senior Member

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Yet another Silvia mod..

mani Said:

Never heard about TC4 but I found the skeleton for the PID code on the internet so it might be from that one.
The PID values are not in the source code because they are set from the menu.
Currently I am using:
P=9
I=0.7
D=135

But again, different implementations will have different values.

Posted March 7, 2011 link

Indeed. I am seeing dramatically different coefficients for my PID setup. At the moment, I'm still tuning, but I'm approaching something near:
P=2.6
I=0.02
D=0.5

Same machine (except my boiler is insulated), very different PID (and therefore different algothrm implementation inside the controller)

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