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Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
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GraydonHall
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Dec 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jan 1, 2011, 10:51am
Subject: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Just picked up a Cellini Evoluzione yesterday. It comes with a braided stainless steel hose to directly plumb it in (picture below).

The information on 1st-line says that the size of the fittings on the hose is 1/8" BMU, and includes a 1/8" BMU to 3/8" BMU adapter. One of the "common questions" on the product page:

Q. What are the sizes on the hose they sent for the plumb they don't seem to be 1/4 inch? And the adapters aren't either.?
A. Please read sizes below. The 3/8th BMU usually connects to a 3/8th NPT except that you will crossthread after the first full rotation.Currently, we are not aware of any adapters for this.

I did a search for BMU threads, not one page found. Perhaps they mean BSP threads? Could be BSPP or BSPT? I know these are the standard thread types for espresso machines.

I read somewhere (can't find it again of course) that you can crossthread a plastic NPT fitting onto a BSP fitting so that the plastic threads will deform and make a tight seal. May or may not be true.

Does anybody have this machine and have it plumbed in? Help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Graydon

GraydonHall: EC1325P_Cellini_plumbing_hose_m.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Necrosis
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione
Grinder: K30 Vario, Baratza Vario
Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Mon Jan 3, 2011, 2:15am
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Since you asked me in another thread, I'll go ahead and try to tell you what I did. Just to get this off my chest, at first I gave Chris's Coffee a call, since their website showed water filters that would be directly related to espresso machines, but I was very unhappy with the attitude I received when asking a few questions regarding "what is right for me?". So I decided to just head over to Lowe's where I can better explain in person what I'm trying to do, and if it didn't work, I had the convenience of returning or exchanging it locally the same day.

I took that braided hose that came with the rocket (w/ little adapter screwed in on one end), my water pressure regulator, and some part of the cold water line (so I would know what fits it to add a T shaped adapter and split the line) over to Lowe's. There, I first found a generic whirlpool 10" drop in filter system (and bought the better 0.5 micron carbon filter), and then someone in the plumbing department was able to figure out (physically) what adapters I would need to get everything connected the way I wanted to. So my water line now splits into a 3/8" hose that runs to the carbon filter, then the pressure regulator, then to my machine.

I honestly dont remember what sizes anything was, it's been awhile and I threw out the packaging, but I imagine taking the parts to a hardware store like I did with a plumbing department, they should be able to figure it out (they have threads to physically test what you bring in). One thing I do remember, that braided hose uses some kind of non-american thread, so make sure to bring that part with. If you look at my picture, you can kind of see where it took multiple pieces to form one adapter, which the employee was able to figure out for me.

http://i52.tinypic.com/9t25b6.jpg (I don't know how to thumbnail)

Hope that helped in some way, writing this at 2am half asleep.
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GraydonHall
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Dec 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 3, 2011, 4:45am
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Aha, this helps very much, thanks. From the picture, it looks like you have a 1/4" NPT female to 3/8" NPT female adapter connected to the 3/8" BSP male adapter that's on the supplied Rocket braided line. I went to Home Depot yesterday and checked out some fittings and found that the 3/8" male BSP fitting would thread partially into a 3/8" NPT female, but only a few turns (there is one thread per inch difference between BSP and NPT). I see you've done some teflon pipe wrap around all fittings anyhow, and I assume that you've had this up and running a while and have had no leaks.

Is that the pressure regulator sold by Chris' Coffee that you're using?

Thanks again.
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Necrosis
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 55
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione
Grinder: K30 Vario, Baratza Vario
Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Mon Jan 3, 2011, 9:07am
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

I've had this setup running for a couple months now, so it seems to work. The pressure regulator is from chris. I found some of the wrappers for the adapters, though I don't know which is which anymore, but there seems to be some pieces with 3/8" FIP and MIP, if that means anything to you. Been awhile, so I don't know for sure if the threading fit 100% or not, at the least I hadn't noticed when screwing everything in, and I suppose either way the teflon tape helped provide a seal.
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canadianmo
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Feb 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Feb 2, 2011, 10:45am
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Hi.  I just purchased a Giotto Evoluzione, and I'm as excited as a kid before Christmas waiting for the delivery...

I'm also looking to plumb it in, and I had a couple of questions... the specs for the Evoluzione say that there is a pressure regulator in the machine... will I still need an external regulator?  Also, there is hard water in my area, but it doesn't sound like a basic charcoal filter is going to help to resolve this, and I'm not sure I have the budget remaining for reverse osmosis... any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for helping the newbie!  This is going to be a fantastic upgrade from my 15 year old Rancilio Nancy...
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GraydonHall
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Dec 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Feb 2, 2011, 5:53pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

(Nice choice on the machine. I absolutely love my Cellini so far.

I placed an order early last month for a bunch of plumbing parts to plumb mine in. Still waiting for them, a little unimpressed with Fresh Water Systems right now...

I did include a pressure regulator in my order because I'll be drawing off a water treatment system that will have variable pressure. I'll use the regulator to feed the pump at around 2 bar, which should be lower than my lowest typical system pressure. Because the Giotto/Cellini Evo has a rotary pump, inlet pressure affects brew pressure. Once I'm plumbed in, I'll have to adjust the pump pressure to get brew pressure back at 8.5/9 bar. As for the pressure regulator inside, I'm not sure. Where did you get that information?

Regarding your water issue, you should have a look at Jim's Insanely Long Water FAQ (Click Here (web.archive.org)). It's not exactly light reading but it will tell you everything you need to know about water for coffee. You don't want to use reverse osmosis water for a few reasons. The first being that reverse osmosis water doesn't have enough mineral content to conduct electricity, so the fill sensor in the boiler will not detect the water level and the boiler will overfill. Another reason is that reverse osmosis water tends to be slightly acidic and therefore reactive, and it will actually slowly leach metals out of the machine's internals. And finally, coffee needs a certain mineral content to extract properly, so reverse osmosis water will not produce optimal tasting espresso. If you're going to end up doing some form of water treatment, I'd recommend getting a TDS and pH meter (both available cheaply on eBay, ~$10 apiece including shipping). They'll give you a clear picture of the state of your water.

As for a cheap option right away you could use mineral water. The thing with that though is that you're going to be wasting a lot of it with cooling flushes...
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vjhardcore
Senior Member
vjhardcore
Joined: 2 Mar 2010
Posts: 95
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto EVOLUZIONE,...
Grinder: Anfim
Posted Thu Feb 3, 2011, 7:29pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Congratulations - I have a Giotto EVO and after almost a year I finally plumbed it in. (I have awhole house softener system) I had heard of odd sized fitting etc on the braided line but my buddy whos a commercial plumber came over and did a take off line for my steam stove / over stove pot filler and my Giotto and said that it was a 'standard' fitting - I forget what size he said but its was common. I flipped the pour over / plumb switch and ba bing it works awesome. At first I thought I noticed a difference in pressures / different noises etc but the machine runs the same as it did from day one without any adjustments. We also ran a plumbed out drain which works nicely. I'll try and attach a photo of the actual plumbing set up when I get a chance.

 
"I'm a man of simple tastes, easily satisfied by the best" Winston Churchill
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MrEspresso
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Feb 2011
Posts: 1
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: Rocky
Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011, 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

Hello,I'm a newbie here at CG.

What I think you need is this adapter I found at... http://blog.seattlecoffeegear.com/tag/rocket-giotto/

Metric Plumbing Adapter $19.95

Wholelattelove has something similar for much less (about $2)

I don't think that WLL has it up on their website so just call them.

I recently ordered the Giotto Evo from WLL and am getting this adapter from them.

Enjoy
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lttlscamp
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 57
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Jul 25, 2012, 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Cellini/Giotto Evoluzione plumb-in/direct-plumb?
 

I know this thread is a bit dated but I recently plumbed in my Evoluzione.

At the moment I have no regulator on the water line and when I flip the brew handle the boiler pressure gauge does some weird stuff like climb right through the green zone and past the red.  Once it actually pegged at max!

Anyone seen this before?   Is it a sign that my water pressure is too high and I need a regulator on it? Or that. Aye something else is wrong?
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