wolfdown Senior Member Joined: 25 May 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Canmore, Alberta Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 1:51pm Subject: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
This is the second time I've descaled this machine.
All though the process of flushing after descaling I was running water through the brewhead, the steam wand , and the hot water spout. I flushed with the equivalent volume of 3 tanks. All seemed fine and clean when I went to bed.
In the morning, all seemed fine again ... except turning on the hot water tap (after pulling a shot) produced nothing.
Is this a symptom of a piece of scale clogging the hot water valve ... or is this something else?
Rancilio Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 418 Location: New Jersey Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Back to Basics Popcorn...
Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 3:24pm Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
Descaling Giotto has nothing to do with the problem you're experiencing with lack of hot water coming out of the machine. It seems to be a common problem with the giotto, mine has the same problem and so are another 2 people that I know of. I never had mine fixed because I don't use hot water from the machine. You might want to call the dealer that sold you the machine and see what he tells you. In my opinion the machine should be fixed free of charge because it is a manufacturer's common defect and the manufacturer should be responsible for it. Regards.
fnacer Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Denver Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Nov 3, 2009, 12:09am Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
It's either the valve or one of the two pipes (spout to valve and valve to boiler) that is not letting water through. The hot water valve might be the same one used for steam. If so, you could switch the two and see if the problem moves to the steam wand.
wolfdown Senior Member Joined: 25 May 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Canmore, Alberta Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Nov 3, 2009, 8:22am Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
One other piece of the puzzle.
Before descaling, 'overflow' came out of the round disc circled in the picture. After descaling, the overflow mostly comes out of the bottom of the cylinder marked by the rectangle in the picture. Sorry I don't know the actual terms for these pieces.
fnacer Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Denver Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Nov 4, 2009, 8:34pm Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
Since no one with an ECM Giotto has responded...
Which "overflow" do you mean? The water that comes out after you finish pulling a shot? Or water that comes out every so often even if you're not using the machine (assuming the machine is plumbed in)?
Where's the "round disc" on the machine? It's hard to tell what you are point to without a bit more context. Maybe a zoomed out picture will help get.
fnacer Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Denver Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Nov 4, 2009, 9:51pm Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
When you finish pulling a shot, the 3-way solenoid valve pulls water out of the basket and dumps it into the tray. That water would come out of the "cylinder" you highlighted with the rectangle.
When a machine is plumbed in, it is usually equipped with a way to control the amount of water that gets to the group head. When the water pressure is higher than it should be, the excess water is dumped into the tray. I am guessing that is supposed to happen through the "round disc" you have.
I'm guessing that the 3-way valve wasn't operating properly before the descaling but is doing so now. This would be confirmed if the coffee puck left in the basket after a shot is drier than it used to be before descaling.
But the only thing that is common to all of these things is the water that you feed the machine. So I'd say that the problems have a common cause, scale, but are independent of one another.
wolfdown Senior Member Joined: 25 May 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Canmore, Alberta Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009, 7:32am Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
So I checked this morning.
WHILE (not after) I'm pulling the shot, water is coming out of the solenoid valve and the disc. So I suspect this means the solenoid is not working properly. If I just run water through the basket, nothing comes out of the solenoid valve and disc; only when it encounters pressure (like when pulling a shot) does it emerge from the valve.
Is it worth taking the solenoid valve apart to see if pieces of scale have gummed it up?
GabrielB Senior Member Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 226 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Maver Junior (HX), Silvia... Grinder: Wega Max (K6), Rocky Vac Pot: Bialetti Moka & Brikka Pot
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 7:15am Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
Before we get too far... are we sure he has a 3-way solenoid valve? It looks an E-61 group to me from the little I can see. Your 3-way valve so to speak is purely mechanical, controlled by the brew arm. If water is coming out of the round cylinder WHILE pulling a shot, then it's possible it's a bad seal (or some loose scale getting stuck) when he lifts the brew handle during a shot. Normally, you should have a big discharge of water right after you finish pulling a shot or backflushing from this cylinder.
The only water coming out should be from the other round little disc as I think it's your OPV discharge. So anytime your engaging the pump and there's pressure build up (backflushing, pulling a shot, etc.), water should come out from there.
Check out this link with an exploded view of the E-61...
wolfdown Senior Member Joined: 25 May 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Canmore, Alberta Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009, 7:19pm Subject: Re: After descaling, no water coming from hot water tap on ECM Giotto
Well I have successfully diagnosed that the problem is indeed the valve. Have one on order now. It has been overtightened too much and consequently closes but does reopen.
It is definitely an E-61 group head. I did take the 'solenoid valve' apart and put it back together ... after which, water only comes out of it AFTER I pull the shot. So success there.
After disassembling the hot water tap/valve, and reassembling, the hot water spout no longer stays in position. Does that mean a washer or seal has worn out as well?
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