Posted Tue Mar 4, 2008, 7:58pm Subject: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
Hello folks ..
The Vetrano is down again .. wonder if anyone has any ideas as to what may be happening ?
Here are the facts ..
Found machine off and GFI for the circuite tripped.
Reset GFI and turned on machine .. machine started to heat up and then GFI tripped.
After removing cover I noticed some water under the boiler / under the heating element and it's connected wires. The wires appeared wet.
I changed the old heating element around October 2007 so this one is rather new.
Water seems to be leaking from the vacume release valve .. and finding it's way to the bottom of the boiler and the heating element wires. This is the valve at top of the boiler that is nut shaped and surrounded by a short basin that seems to collect overflow .. it has a pin that rises to shut the valve... not sure I am calling it the right term.
So far I removed the heating element wires and kept them dry and the machine stays on without tripping the GFI.
However the vacume relief valve does not seem to be closing and oddly to me was leaking water during the day when the machine was cool. Upon heating it started spitting water .. which I soaked up with a towel .. the GFI did not trip .. when the water really started to squirt heavy and it started getting too HOT to soak up I turned off the machine.
What do you think might be happening ?? At first I simply thought heating element .. now I am thinking maybe just a leaking valve shorting the system ?
BradS Senior Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 32 Location: St Louis
Posted Tue Mar 4, 2008, 8:40pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
It sounds like the boiler-fill solenoid may be leaking, allowing the boiler level to rise indefinitely (at least if you're using a pressure water supply). With the machine unplugged, remove the vacuum breaker and check the boiler level with a wooden dowel or similar. It should be roughly 2/3's full. If it is overfull, remove the fill solenoid and repair or replace.
Posted Tue Mar 4, 2008, 8:43pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
Hi Sal,
It sounds like your boiler level probe is calcified & can no longer sense the water level in your boiler, & it will keep refilling higher & higher in the boiler creeping up the probe to find a clean conductive area on which to ground the refill circuit which signals the brainbox to trigger the auto refill solenoid off/shut to then stop filling the boiler.
Your boiler is so full that water upon heating up is being expanded & pushed out of the vacuum valve. The wet wiring was taking the path of least resistance to ground & tripping your GFI.
P.S. This post was being composed before I saw Brads post.
Posted Tue Mar 4, 2008, 8:59pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
Your points are well taken too Brad (boiler level %age & checking it) {;-), & as the rubber seal area on the solenoid plunger can & does get hard over time & could have some limescale or detritus on it or its opposing seating/sealing surface.
Posted Wed Mar 5, 2008, 4:50pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
Gents thanks for the replies ..
While I was drinking french press coffee today and pondering the problem my wife called me to tell me the boiler was still leaking .. oozing water out the vacume valve .. hmm .. so I had her turn of the water supply and ofcourse it stopped.
I did not clean the solenoid valve last time I repaired the machine so as suggested that could be the problem. That would make sense since the boiler was still overflowing when the machine was off but under water pressure ( direct plumbed )
Have not had time to check the boiler level ... I will when the work week is over for sure.
Maybe there is more then one problem ?? Eeek ..
Or lets see if I understand this .. if the solenoid valve leaked .. it would cause the water level to rise in the boiler to the top but water would not close the vacume relief valve and so the boiler leaked and tripped the GFI .. sound right ??
Or could be the lever indicator and / or leaking valve ?
BradS Senior Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 32 Location: St Louis
Posted Wed Mar 5, 2008, 5:07pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
At the risk of simul-posting with Craig again ;-)... the flow rate from a relatively slow leak is likely not enough the seat the vacuum breaker is why it doesn't close off. I think it would be needless to check the level if you can visibly see the water coming from the vac breaker. Try unhooking the output side of the boiler-fill solenoid valve, apply line water pressure to the machine again and see if that's the source (drain the boiler first, or be prepared for the reverse flow from it as most machines don't have a check-valve between this valve and the boiler).
Typically those valves are mfd by parker or lucifer (div of parker) and they should be field-repairable with o-rings. You may get lucky and find sediment or something obvious in an otherwise sound valve.
chriscoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2002 Posts: 186 Location: Albany Expertise: Professional
Posted Wed Mar 5, 2008, 5:21pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
If your pump is not running it is more likely your solenoid valve letting water buy. It is usually caused by one of the following. Either scale build up inside where the plunger is, the rubber seat is damaged, or a piece of debris in the valve preventing it from seating properly. Too high a line pressure can make this more likely to happen as well. In many cased you can take the valve apart and clean it and it will work fine. After you get it fixed look at the pump pressure gauge on your machine, it will tell you your line pressure. If it exceeds 3 to 4 bars max you should put a regulator on the line to drop that pressure to 3 bar. You can get the water level down in your boiler one of two ways after it is repaired. Either syphon it out or simply let it start to heat and keep opening your hot water valve and letting water come out. You will need to repeat it a few times to allow it to build pressure and push water out then rebuild pressure to push more water out. Once you open the hot water valve and the the pump kicks in you will know you are back to the correct level in your boiler.
Chris Nachtrieb. Pres. Chris" Coffee Service, Inc.
Posted Wed Mar 5, 2008, 9:11pm Subject: Re: Vetrano Repair : Need ideas on what is happening ?
Thanks evryone for the input ... very helpful .. I am starting to get the hang of this espresso repair methods .. having such info from you guys online is very helpful.
Chris .. thanks for the response your tech support department has been a joy to work with and a major help with repairing and servicing the Vetrano.
I have a clearer idea now how to approach this repair .. thanks everyone.
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