inkstar Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2006 Posts: 55 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: My Sweet Girl - Silvia Grinder: KA Proline - modified Vac Pot: Yama Drip: Pour over, Apress Roaster: rk drum, hot air
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2007, 1:02pm Subject: Re: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...Please confirm this is wis
Ok, I'll except that. enough of the bickering. what do you think about RTD's compared to Thermo's. It sounds like you've PID'ed some machines, have you ever compared?
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2007, 1:35pm Subject: Re: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...Please confirm this is wis
inkstar Said:
Ok, I'll except that. enough of the bickering. what do you think about RTD's compared to Thermo's. It sounds like you've PID'ed some machines, have you ever compared?
I didn't start anything & am just defending myself man, not bickering. I already gave you my answer above, but I've only PID'd my May 2001 Rancilio Miss Silvia on Sat June 24/06. {:-)
I sold the Series 935A one line temperature controller (like new condition - fully tested and calibrated - functioning perfectly) complete kit that I paid $119 for (verified through Jim's eBay feedback) to Coffeegeek member JavaJones.
My 3rd unit the Cal controls one I linked to above, I was going to PID my BUNN thermofresh thermal coffee brewer with that. I may install this unit however as Jim Gallt did on his Silvia for a separate grouphead (or close to) readout.
O.T. I've finished my work for the day & it's my brothers birthday, so I'm going to enjoy it & the Staropramen starting now LOL! & the weekend. Man, I WISH I had CoffeeRoastersClub's excellent meat smoker that he just recently built to go along with the beverages! {;-)
Sorry, I appologize for more info than we all needed to know.
Winnenden Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2006 Posts: 14 Location: Poofter's Froth, Wyoming Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: PID'd Silvia Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: No Thanks Drip: Pour Over Roaster: Cast Iron Dutch Oven
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2007, 6:03pm Subject: Re: PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...Please confirm this is wise!
I would like to chime in and confirm that I think the PID kit from Jim Gallt is wise. I have been 100% satisfied. I wanted to write a review for it but I couldn't find the right section, so I just included it in my Silvia review. To be honest, the PID kit was the main reason I wrote my Silvia review. The kit has everything you need, and installation is easy. I am not an engineer or even close, just so you know. I can change the oil in my car. One time I changed the spark plugs, but that's about my limit.
A good comment written above was that maybe you could consider upgrading to a more expensive machine, rather than tweaking the one you have. Obviously, only you can make that call. A PID'd Silvia is still significantly less money than the HX machines that many people really love. Is your machine still under warranty? The PID install will void that warranty.
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2007, 1:28pm Subject: Re: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...
You can't go wrong with Jim's PID kits. You can certainly PID for less on your own but the fit and finish of his kit is precisely why I went with Jim's Watlow 96 w/ steam control kit. I knew I could install a PID just fine but I didn't want a Frankenstein-looking tumor hanging off the side of my Silvia. Not to mention the detail that has gone into Jim's instructions, cutting and fitting color-coded wires with the right connectors and literally including every tiny thing you need except for screwdrivers and the 7mm socket.
Now, if I could have made it look all steam-punkish I definitely would have gone that route on my own instead but it would have been better to start off with a brass machine than the stainless Silvia...
Winnenden Said:
A good comment written above was that maybe you could consider upgrading to a more expensive machine, rather than tweaking the one you have. Obviously, only you can make that call. A PID'd Silvia is still significantly less money than the HX machines that many people really love.
There was certainly no way that my old Silvia on ebay + cost of Jim's PID kit would have come anywhere near the price of a Vetrano and all the related hardware needed to plumb it in and set it up with filters, etc.
brianh Senior Member Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 8 Location: Seattle Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Sylvia Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2007, 2:14pm Subject: Re: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt
inkstar Said:
Doing it yourself is cheaper and you will be satisfied even with less than the best parts. If money is no object, Jim's piece should be perfect, it's a quality piece and he takes pride in it. I however, prefer RTD's over Thermo's. Next step for you is to add a timer and pressure gauge. www.flickr.com/photos/inkstar
inkstar, I'm fascinated by that pressure gauge you added to the Sylvia. Can you or someone else who's done this post their steps on the mod? It seems like a nice addition. If a Make Magazine style step-by-step is already around, could someone throw me a pointer? Thanks!
inkstar Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2006 Posts: 55 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: My Sweet Girl - Silvia Grinder: KA Proline - modified Vac Pot: Yama Drip: Pour over, Apress Roaster: rk drum, hot air
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2007, 5:28pm Subject: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...Please confirm this is wis
I like the discussion going on here. I am an electrical engineer and I have experience w/ controls, so installing a PID myself comes very natural. I would never purchase a kit if I thought I could do it myself. With that said, not everyone has the desire or the time to do the homework to assemble and install such a device, and that's where guys like Jim Gallt come in. He's done the research and grunt work for you. I have never installed any of his kits, but I assume they are quick and easy, and if you're time is valuable, worth the price! There are so many resources out there to assemble any type of control system you desire, and YES, you can indeed assemble a cheaper system than Jim's, and YES, you can assemble a more expensive system. So now you have to make a choice. I prefer RTD's though, the linear relation to temperature is so nice!
As for Auberins. In my opinion Auber is still an entry level piece, but very workable. As for the operating temperature, yes, it's lower, but I hope you are venting your PID because any controller needs to be as cool as possible. As for the membrane buttons, yes they can crack, but how often are you pressing those button?
As for the pressure gauge, I am working on a photo how-to of how I did it, but it's low on the list of to-do's. It will be on www.atlantacoffeescene.com which is still under development.
The other addition to Silvia is a Koyo process timer that I absolutely love. It controls the machine so I can focus on the cup and not try to count everytime I pull shots.
So as always, PID everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted Tue May 1, 2007, 6:42am Subject: Re: Going for the PID kit for Sylvia from Jim Gallt...Please confirm this is wis
EDIT - I'd meant to also say that I actually bought my CAL 3300 PID, thermocouple and SSR from Jim Gallt of PIDKits.com as surplus stock. I totally recommend him, and wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again. A really great guy to deal with!
Hi inkstar,
inkstar Said:
I prefer RTD's though, the linear relation to temperature is so nice!
If I were building a controller from scratch myself, I can see that it would be easier to design the input circuits and signal conditioning/temp mapping algorithms for an RTD over a Thermocouple, for this reason and others. But if I were buying an off-the-shelf controller with support for numerous thermocouple types, as well as an RTD, how much difference would you say this factor is going to make in practice ?
Also, what's your view on 3 wire vs. 2 wire connection of RTDs to these controllers ? What sort of length of wire run would you say you'd need to be running to benefit from (or absolutely require) a 3 wire connection to cancel out the effect of connection resistance ? I was looking at my own CAL PID controller (a 3300) recently, which I currently use with a Type T SLE thermocouple, and I noticed that it only took a 2 wire RTD connection, which surprised me somewhat. I'm assuming it's inconsequential at the sort of distances you'd be looking at for an espresso machine internal mount of a PID, but what about the more common case (for espresso machines that is) of external mounting ?
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