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Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > Londinium 1 vs...  
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ltjaw
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Joined: 10 Sep 2011
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Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 1:23pm
Subject: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

I posted this thread on the Londiniumespresso forum, so I apologize if any readers find this redundant.

I am close to purchasing a new espresso machine and have narrowed my selection down to the Londinium 1 and a single group spring lever machine made by Salvatore. Price is not a factor in my decision - yes, the Salvatore is about 1000USD more than the Londinium. I'm okay with that. Rather, build quality, reliability, and results in the cup are my greatest concerns.

Regarding results in the cup - to my knowledge, both machines use the "Bosco" lever group. Does this mean I should expect similar results from both machines?

Regarding build quality and reliability - I do not expect to find anyone with a Salvatore spring lever machine at this point, as he has not really produced many of them. But I find good reviews of the other machines he has been making for a number of years. Reports I have read on the Londinium are very positive, so the L1 has a running head start in the quality/reliability categories for me.

Are there other major differences in the units that I should consider? The Salvatore has a 6.5L boiler and a 3.8L reservoir. The heating element is 2000W. I am in the US, so the heating element on the L1 for me will be 1400W. The L1 boiler is 2.3L and the reservoir is 3L. Do these differences matter? Size-wise the Salvatore is a little larger, but still within the kitchen countertop range (which is where either machine would end up).

Thanks for considering my questions.
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victoriacoffees
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victoriacoffees
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Location: Victoria
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Espresso: Izzo Pompei
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Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

I'm not familiar with either machine in particular other that what has been expressed on the various forums. A Salvatore machine came into the shop a few months back and I was impressed with the build quality.

Your post does have me curious as to the dimension of the Salvatore lever. With a 6.5L boiler and a 3.8L tank, it must be similar to the QM Achille, with it's 4.5L boiler and 3L tank. It measures 31h x 14w x 20d.

Do you know if the dimensions are similar?

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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buckypony
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buckypony
Joined: 8 Jan 2013
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 5:42pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

Id like to eventually get a lever so your post caught my eye. I own a Salvatore semi auto and I love it. I do think the L1 looks so much prettier...is that a factor to you?  :)  I just wanted to share that my Sal is from the 80s and has only had a button replaced. A real testimony to the quality of how it was built. I cant imagine the extra 1000 you pay Salvatore is for looks...my guess its because of the parts/labor involved.
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GVDub
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Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

buckypony Said:

I cant imagine the extra 1000 you pay Salvatore is for looks...my guess its because of the parts/labor involved.

Posted February 25, 2014 link

More like totally hand-built vs. factory built. Not going to be a lot of difference in parts.

I love my Londinium I, and expect that the shots you get from the two would be pretty much identical as they're using the same group, and both Reiss at Londinium and Salvatore have reputations for sterling customer service, so it's down to which one you want to spend several decades admiring when you walk into the kitchen.
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buckypony
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buckypony
Joined: 8 Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Salvatore Semi Auto
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: I wish
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

Sorry, was on my "smart" phone when I posted  - I meant "the extra 1000 IS NOT for looks, but for the parts/labor involved." -
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tek
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Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

Groups being the same then what it comes down to as far as shot quality is concerned is how tuned the machine is as far as delivering consistent temperature to coffee puck. Londinium 1 is by all account tuned up so you can walk up to it and lock in your portafilter and pull the shot and water temperature will be right as it should be. This is because L1 uses thermosyphon setup so the water in boiler heats up the group head just enough to keep it in perfect working range.

Is that case with Salvatores lever? How is group connected with boiler? Is it simple dipper setup? If it is you will have to first discover and then develop routines to heat group head to right temperature so you can pull shots...

Me personally, I'd go with L1. The biggest challenge with any lever machine pretty much is temperature control... And I had few ;-)

 
www.10000shots.com
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ltjaw
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Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Cremina 67
Grinder: OE Pharos, Rocky
Vac Pot: Cona D, Hario Nouveau, etc
Drip: Chemex, Clever, Kone
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

Regarding thermosyphon vs dipper: if the Salvatore uses the same Bosco group as the Londinium, would it not be connected to the boiler in the same fashion? I assumed the Salvatore has similar group temperature regulation. Another question for Wendy and Salvatore, I suppose.
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ltjaw
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Cremina 67
Grinder: OE Pharos, Rocky
Vac Pot: Cona D, Hario Nouveau, etc
Drip: Chemex, Clever, Kone
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

victoriacoffees Said:

I'm not familiar with either machine in particular other that what has been expressed on the various forums. A Salvatore machine came into the shop a few months back and I was impressed with the build quality.

Your post does have me curious as to the dimension of the Salvatore lever. With a 6.5L boiler and a 3.8L tank, it must be similar to the QM Achille, with it's 4.5L boiler and 3L tank. It measures 31h x 14w x 20d.

Do you know if the dimensions are similar?

Posted February 25, 2014 link

Hi John,

I've been meaning to call and chat with you, as I'm nearby in Austin. I'd consider the Achille if I knew it would fit under my kitchen cabinets (I have 17.5" of clearance on my kitchen counter).

Here are the specs on the Salvatore, from his website:

2000 Watt heating element

Water Reservoir 1 Gallon, Custom machined cap knurled for grip

Antiburn hot water and steam wands in stainless, swivel 360 degrees

71W Pump

Large drawer like drain pan and tray

Powder coated steel frame

Stainless steel and Powder coated case

Custom machined stepped feet

Custom machined pressure gauge

Custom machined power switch

6.5 liter Boiler

14" Wide x 15" High x 21" Deep

110 V 16.6 Amp
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ltjaw
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Austin, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Cremina 67
Grinder: OE Pharos, Rocky
Vac Pot: Cona D, Hario Nouveau, etc
Drip: Chemex, Clever, Kone
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

After some reading, I would include the Izzo Alex Leva in this discussion, were it available in the US.
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victoriacoffees
Senior Member
victoriacoffees
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Izzo Pompei
Grinder: Compak K8 Fresh; Mythos...
Roaster: Ambex 15K; Hottop
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2014, 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Londinium 1 vs Salvatore Spring Lever
 

The dimensions sure look to be similar. In the morning I'll get the height w/o the lever arm and post it.

Those hammered shells sure are nice.

Are you thinking of plumbing it in?

Anytime you're down this way, stop on by. Had a fellow on his way back to San Marcos drop in this morning thinking I was a coffee shop. Made him a Panamanian Americano and visited for a spell. Works for the GBRA. My brain is old so I don't remember his name.

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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