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Feelings About Cremina?
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > Feelings About...  
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SpaceTime
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Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

JZY Said:

$2k is ridiculous.  You shouldn't have to pay more than $1200 for a well kept perfectly working Cremina with all parts in excellent condition.  For less than $2k you can buy a new Strega or stretch the budget for an L1 which are both a lot more machine for the money than the Cremina.

Posted January 1, 2014 link

Thank you for your opinion!

It is not always about brute strength - the Strega is 13W x 18D x 28H and weighs 64 lbs.  

The Cremina is 8W x 11D x 13H and weighs 22 lbs.

For where I am putting it in my home, and the fact it will travel in an RV with me (read the requirements mentioned above) it is perfect for MY needs!  ;-) Of course, you are welcome to spend your money any way you want, I respect that and would never call your opinion / choice "ridiculous".  OK, I guess if you were to buy a Strega that you occasionally took on long RV trips, maybe I would!

And you are dead wrong - you are not going to find a new old stock Cremina for $1200 - "well kept" is much different from "unused"   Read above - this machine is literally UNUSED.  That is the way it is being sold, that is the way it looks after inspection inside and out, and I will verify that 100% next week - the only thing that has not been inspected so far is the INSIDE of the boiler because it was under pressure while I was there.  And oh, btw, 25 years old, and under pressure with 25 year old gaskets and no sign of a drip anywhere... and strong dry steam.   The Cremina is *perfect* for where it is going, and $2K for a new old stock is not at all ridiculous.  Two just sold on Ebay in the $1600 range, and a restored one for $1400 and they are not as nice IMHO as this - one leaked, and all three were used machines.

This machine is literally the envy of those who hunt for older Creminas in MINT condition, and I feel very lucky to find it.  I just hope with all the offers in the $2K range I am the one who gets it.  

Thanks again for your opinion!

PS - I have a large area in my woodshop where I am looking to fill with a bigger machine - and coincidentally for THAT space I am currently thinking about a Vivaldi II, a L1 or believe it or not a Strega.   I spent a couple of hours studying the strega last night - read Tom C's opinion over on HB, watch Jim pull shots, etc... fine machine.  But one machine does not meet all needs / requirements - and price is not the only factor in decision making.  Most people spend a great deal of time laboring over a decision to buy ONE machine, and then when they do, they spend the next ten years defending / justifying that choice as the best and comparing that choice to all others as potentially a better solution... I always say - "Everyone's needs are different"  Cheers to you.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

weebit_nutty Said:

If the machine is truly in new old-stock condition I don't think $2000 is too far of the mark. $1800 is reasonable but it all comes down to what the inside looks like.  Most of the Creminas I've seen on eBay are in very used condition...

Some of the nicer ones still aren't anywhere near from mint quality.   So if you really got one in original new condition is a very rare find indeed.

My machines cost me $1000 and $1400... And they were both refurbished.

Posted December 31, 2013 link

One thing that is amusing though... although I deemed buying a new one at $3600 as "crazy" (maybe even nutty ;-)), I guess I did the same thing at a different level by potentially buying a 25 year old one for $2000!  For some reason I still feel like this is a better deal...

I am getting the feeling the seller wants me to own it, he delayed his trip by a day and just emailed me... I asked him if it were possible to email a couple of shots of the boiler - I will post them if he does.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 6:35pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

OK, here they are... this is the first time I am posting a pic, and I had to change the size/ quality when I saved it from email to make it under 75KB

Plus it was taken from a phone, so maybe not the best resolution....

Any pointers on attaching pics would help - starting with the best way to take a 225kb email jpg and save it under 75kb for the attachment here on CG... I am a rookie here at this!!!

SpaceTime: Cremina1test.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 6:36pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

Another

SpaceTime: cremina4test
(Click for larger image)
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

One more...  sorry if the quality is poor...

SpaceTime: Cremina3test
(Click for larger image)
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About Cremina?
 

JZY Said:

$2k is ridiculous.  You shouldn't have to pay more than $1200 for a well kept perfectly working Cremina with all parts in excellent condition.  For less than $2k you can buy a new Strega or stretch the budget for an L1 which are both a lot more machine for the money than the Cremina.

Posted January 1, 2014 link

So one just sold for $1600 on fleabay yesterday, another for $1500 earlier this month, and one listed tonight for $1475 STARTING bid... and I bet this one goes for $1700  to $1800 range given the nice pics / marketing job...  the bar has been raised recently for ones in pristine condition.  And it looks like this one still has the asbestos, I contacted the seller, and they verified as such - so it verifies it is not just a nice restore job.  ***EDIT ***- the seller just raised the one on Ebay to $1750... I think it will sell at that... it is a very clean rig.

So much for the "shouldn't have to pay $1200" theory - maybe for a well used one, but the nicer / mint ones are going to command closer to $1500 to $1800 IMHO depending on the day, bidder and quality of marketing by the seller.  (and it is more than just my opinion given recent sales).  It appears there is data to back up this claim, not just emotion.  Price is determined by supply and demand, and more importantly what someone wants to pay for it - and not by what a Strega cost by comparison!

So I may be overpaying for $200, but for the privilege of picking it up locally, being able to see it, meeting the seller eye to eye, being able to end my search after two weeks of searching, etc, etc, etc that is the best $200 I have spent in... well... at least a month!  LOL  (well, I don't own it yet, but IF...)
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RAS
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RAS
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: Southern California
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PV Lusso, Cremina, Oly...
Grinder: OE Pharos
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: Manual (funnel)
Roaster: Heat gun
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About C
 

Where's this guy live?... I'll get $2K out of my bank and and buy this this thing myself right now.

Been doing some math, and I figure that a new Cremina is worth $1000-1200 over a brand new old stock Cremina... Larger boiler, pressure gauge, CAD designed innards (if they really have been CAD designed - and if, for an espresso machine, it matters)... This one is a "bargain". Buy the "dam" thing, or I will. In 5 years, it will "be in the noise" - and you could be a few thousand shots into a lifetime of incredible coffee. QED.

 
Bob
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 263
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (2) Olympia Creminas - '83 &...
Grinder: Four hand grinders and two...
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Wed Jan 1, 2014, 10:23pm
Subject: Re: Feelings About C
 

Where's this guy live?... I'll get $2K out of my bank and and buy this this thing myself right now.

Nice try... ain't sharing!

Been doing some math, and I figure that a new Cremina is worth $1000-1200 over a brand new old stock Cremina...

Before fixing your calculator, let's get the numbers right ;-) - a new Cremina is now $3600, which according to my calculations is $1600 more that the one I am considering.  Trust me, I was tempted to buy new... but I think this is a better deal.  Let's face it - nobody pays the "new premium" these days because the 20 year old ones give just as good a quality in the cup, so if that logic holds a new one for $2000 MUST be the holy crap outta a new one for $3600.  BUT if you feel you need to spend $3600 to match what I will be drinking for $2000, by all means!!! ;-)  Then, in five years you can sell me your five year old one for $2000!  LOL  (the new ones are a tad overpriced IMHO - but you can make a strong case so is mine for $2000 and some already have... I know I am spending more than I should, but this machine meets SO many of my requirements for space, portability for travel, quality, etc.... I think a lot more people are attracted to the size aspect of this thing than you realize... not everyone wants a monster Achille or L1 or Strega Lever).

Larger boiler, pressure gauge, CAD designed innards (if they really have been CAD designed - and if, for an espresso machine, it matters)...

I know you are trying to support your argument... but the CAD thing is a stretch!! LOL  These things thrived for many years on simplicity of design and execution, and some new CAD program really has not changed much of what has already worked for decades.  All it really did was increased their cost of doing biz and licensing fees, plus now you gotta pay some CAD geek a salary!

Larger boiler - pro, more water, less fills.  For onesy / twosy shots probably not a requirement.  Con - longer recovery and heat up times...

Pressure Gauge - for $15 bucks and an adapter, you can have a pressure gauge... and it is handy for Pstat setting / dial-in, and a few times to profile how your method is affecting shot pulls... but after you get the feel, do you really need the Pressure gauge anymore?

This one is a "bargain". Buy the "dam" thing, or I will. In 5 years, it will "be in the noise" - and you could be a few thousand shots into a lifetime of incredible coffee. QED

Amen to that brother!!! I am trying!  I think I am close... the seller seems to think I am the "right buyer!"  Maybe I can get him to shave a couple hundred off when I sense the time is right and we are about to pass the cash.... we'll see.  Negotiation does not stop till the fat lady sings!

Cheers Bob and thanks for the vote of support... I am going to need all the backing I can get, my wife is starting to get the calculator out and monitor the different shopping carts at OE, etc... LOL


PS - somebody has to give me some pointers still on how to take the larger pics on my email, and successfully get them in 75KB size so they look better on the board.  How are folks getting those nice LARGE pictures on their posts - I am stumped!
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weebit_nutty
Senior Member
weebit_nutty
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 233
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Cremina 67 Lever,  LCM HX
Grinder: HG One, Forte BG
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Roaster: jiffy pop
Posted Thu Jan 2, 2014, 12:53am
Subject: Re: Feelings About C
 

SpaceTime Said:

PS - somebody has to give me some pointers still on how to take the larger pics on my email, and successfully get them in 75KB size so they look better on the board.  How are folks getting those nice LARGE pictures on their posts - I am stumped!

Posted January 1, 2014 link

I use an online editor called PIXLR.    You can upload your picture or provide an image link (URL).  

Here are the steps:
  1. Go to www.pixlr.com and select PIXLR Express.  Choose your file.
  2. Select Adjustment icon, then Resize icon.  800 pixels is a good size for posts.
  3. Click on the Save at the upper left.  Adjust the size to 75kb and save it to your local folder.
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farmroast
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farmroast
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1,438
Location: Amherst MA.
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Strega,Cremina, MCAL...
Grinder: Majors, Dienes
Vac Pot: Hellem10
Drip: CCD, and more
Roaster: 1kg. DreamRoast
Posted Thu Jan 2, 2014, 7:20am
Subject: Re: Feelings About C
 

It's pretty difficult to be absolutely sure of boiler condition. Issues have been with pin hole corrosion. On machines where scale never gets removed for many years. Scale covers a spot with slight impurities and slowly eats a pin hole. Once through you then see a little white zit on the outside. At first it may not leak as the scale somewhat fills it. But with time or descaling it will start to leak. I did see this on one barely used machine I rebuilt as well as one with moderate use. You'd really have to open the boiler and find no signs of scale to have some sense the boiler and element are truly pristine. There are options to repair a pin leak so it's not like it is a total disaster. I like to open the boiler and physically clean about once a year or so not letting buildups remain in a spot for too much time.

 
Ed Bourgeois... LMWDP #167
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