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Caravel Help
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > Caravel Help  
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SimonPatrice
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Montréal, Québec
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Caravel
Grinder: Peugeot, Armin Trosser, OE...
Drip: Melitta, press pot, eva...
Posted Sat Nov 30, 2013, 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

lifeandpeace Said:

I have a custom tamper for Caravels.



Do you do a pre-infusion?  If yes, can you explain what you do on the Caravel?  I've tried waiting a few seconds after lifting the lever, and before beginning the pull to allow some water to trickle in the PF, but I have not noticed that it improves the shot.  

Posted November 23, 2013 link

For pre-infusion, lift the lever for 3-4 seconds, then pull slowly until you feel a good resistence and hold the lever in place.  When the first drop falls, either pull you shot or lift the lever back up and then pull the shot.

I'm happy to see that your shots are improving.
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clm
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
Location: Hawaii
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Mypressi
Grinder: OE LIdo
Drip: Hario, Aeropress
Posted Sun Dec 1, 2013, 8:55am
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

I am getting better, thanks to everyone for their help. I'm still struggling with the water temp.  My Caravel cuts off at 190F - I know this because the little red light goes off, and the temp starts to fall - it clicks back on at just above 180F.  This is so frustrating - on a cold morning it may take me 5-6 fills and refills of boiling water to get the temp up to 200F.  Is there a way to manually adjust the thermostat?  I will ask Francesco as well, but maybe someone here has done this - I need pretty specific instructions.  I have the knob at the back of the machine turned all the way to the right (Red mark), if I try other settings the machine cuts off.
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clm
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
Location: Hawaii
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Mypressi
Grinder: OE LIdo
Drip: Hario, Aeropress
Posted Thu Dec 5, 2013, 9:56am
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

I had a 240V plug installed and swapped out the cord and plug on my machine - my Caravel comes to a roiling boil now!  Can someone help me understand the 2 knobs on the back?  One is the thermostat adjustment (little knob on the upper part of the back with a + and -), but what is the bottom knob used for?  I now seem to have the reverse problem that I used to have - the water gets too hot, and I'm having a bit of trouble getting it set just right.  I have the bottom knob set all the way to the right (left is black, middle is no color, right is red), when I try to adjust that setting the light goes off.
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 864
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Thu Dec 5, 2013, 11:42am
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

The bottom knob is the power switch, so it going off when you turn that is a good thing.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Fri Dec 6, 2013, 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

This is just a random observation, but fromn what I've read, the Lido 9and soon to be Lido II…probably awesome!) was designed PRIMARILY for thew coarser grinding chores, like drip, maul pour-over, press pot. The larger and more elaborate PHAROS is the big boy designed MOSTLY for espresso grinding.
OE is top notch stuff, and Doug and Barb are awesome folks. If I'm incorrect here regarding the usages for these 2 grinders, PLEASE someone correct me.

 
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lifeandpeace
Senior Member
lifeandpeace
Joined: 9 Nov 2007
Posts: 745
Location: PBI

Espresso: Arrarex Caravel
Grinder: BUNN G1, Zassenhaus knee
Vac Pot: Cory / Hario / Silex
Drip: cloth, glass Hario V60;...
Roaster: RK Drum, WBP II
Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

clm Said:

Can you tell me where you got your tamper and also what grinder you use?

Posted November 29, 2013 link

Rightchya.

I have used both a Rancilio Rocky and a manual Zassenhaus with good results.


clm Said:

Do you do a pre-infusion?

Posted November 29, 2013 link

No. No doubt some might do this and have good results. I don't find anything other than a standard pull necessary. Just give it 3 or 4 seconds to be sure the chamber fills up. There's not much trickling possible when the basket is full and tamped.

Now this comes to pressure profiling, an art that I won't even begin to try to explain on a forum!



clm Said:

Freshly roasted beans make all the difference.  I'll be wanting to learn how to roast them next.

Posted November 29, 2013 link

Cindy, now this is getting out of hand.

 
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lifeandpeace
Senior Member
lifeandpeace
Joined: 9 Nov 2007
Posts: 745
Location: PBI

Espresso: Arrarex Caravel
Grinder: BUNN G1, Zassenhaus knee
Vac Pot: Cory / Hario / Silex
Drip: cloth, glass Hario V60;...
Roaster: RK Drum, WBP II
Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

IMAWriter Said:

This is just a random observation, but fromn what I've read, the Lido 9and soon to be Lido II…probably awesome!) was designed PRIMARILY for thew coarser grinding chores, like drip, maul pour-over, press pot. The larger and more elaborate PHAROS is the big boy designed MOSTLY for espresso grinding.
OE is top notch stuff, and Doug and Barb are awesome folks. If I'm incorrect here regarding the usages for these 2 grinders, PLEASE someone correct me.

Posted December 6, 2013 link

I had a similar suspicion from Cindy's earlier posts: that the Lido is probably not ideal for espresso. I don't have a Lido, so I wasn't sure, but I have read things very similar to what Rob mentioned above. I read some of the massive Pharos threads on H-B when I was considering getting one (still might). But, yes, that was my impression, that Lido was "geared" more toward a drip or FP grind.

 
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SimonPatrice
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Montréal, Québec
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Caravel
Grinder: Peugeot, Armin Trosser, OE...
Drip: Melitta, press pot, eva...
Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 8:55pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

lifeandpeace Said:

I had a similar suspicion from Cindy's earlier posts: that the Lido is probably not ideal for espresso. I don't have a Lido, so I wasn't sure, but I have read things very similar to what Rob mentioned above. I read some of the massive Pharos threads on H-B when I was considering getting one (still might). But, yes, that was my impression, that Lido was "geared" more toward a drip or FP grind.

Posted December 8, 2013 link

Even though, you'll probably get more taste definition with the Pharos (I'll soon find out), the Lido is totally suitable for espresso.  It does excel at coarser grinds but I can testify that the Lido+Caravel combo can make darn good shots.

Also, If you do just one single pull and no pre-infusion, what's the size of your shots?  And which basket are you using?  I ask because I have to do more than one pull (around 1 1/2) to get the ratio I want.  I start with 15g. in the double basket and adjust my pull(s) to get around 22-26g. depending one the coffee.  I've always wondered if there was a way to get a lower ratio than 90-100% with just one pull.

Cindy, now that you can get your water hotter, have you been able to get satisfying shots so far?
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clm
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
Location: Hawaii
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Mypressi
Grinder: OE LIdo
Drip: Hario, Aeropress
Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

Thanks everyone for all this input!  I'm definitely getting better shots, and my prep time has been drastically reduced - I got the Caravel setting perfect and she works like a charm, thermostat holding at 200.  I've now using some RedBird that I stored in the freezer in jars, so it's not freshly roasted, but I can still pull some crema.  My shots are really small - about 1/2 oz using about 10gms of beans.  My inker cup never gets to sit on it's little saucer.  Even though the temp is good (200) and I preheat cup and run hot water through the machine, my shots are still fairly lukewarm.  This may not matter much, I've read that flavors can expand as coffee cools, but I'd like to try a double and sit down with my little cup and saucer.  Maybe espresso is a stand up drink....meant for bars not tables & chairs.  I'm not complaining.
I keep trying the preinfusion technique, but it's really hard to say if it helps or not.  I'm also working on the timing of the pull, which does seem to make a big difference.
Really nice to hear the input on the Pharos.  I keep trying to tweak the Lido's grind to get just a little bit finer, but then I choke the Caravel, which is a little frustrating because I keep moving back to the same setting each time.  I'd hoped that I could adjust the grind to get different flavors, but maybe that's the wrong direction.  Maybe I should just concentrate on the basket prep and pull for now - one thing at a time.  I'll be anxious to hear about Simon's comparison of the Lido to the Pharos.
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jpthibault
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Feb 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Ottawa
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Caravel, Elektra MCAL
Grinder: Pharos, Peugeot
Drip: Espro press
Posted Mon Dec 9, 2013, 11:15am
Subject: Re: Caravel Help
 

clm Said:

I keep trying to tweak the Lido's grind to get just a little bit finer, but then I choke the Caravel, which is a little frustrating because I keep moving back to the same setting each time.  I'd hoped that I could adjust the grind to get different flavors, but maybe that's the wrong direction.

Posted December 8, 2013 link

When you're adjusting the grind, you're missing an important variable: dose! Say you've got your Lido dialed in for a 10g dose. If you want to try a finer grind, you also have lower the dose (or you're likely to choke, as you've seen). If you want to try a coarser grind, increase the dose (or it will gush). A scale with 0.1g accurary is critical for this. Especially with the Caravel's small basket, one gram too much or too little can make a huge difference in the pull.

Although I don't have a Lido (yet -- will probably get the Lido2 when it's released), I have read a lot about it and I doubt that it's holding you back.
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