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Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > Bosco or...  
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x1
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Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 102
Location: x
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011, 1:20am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Well, I suppose I'll just have to invite you all up to Squamish for a cup of coffee and you can decide for yourself on the grouphead diameter.  The Bosco 2 grp arrives in about 60-75 days.  Drop me a line if you're in the neighbourhood. I will post pics once it's in and operating.

I think it is really difficult to identify a particular behaviour to a group-head size.  it's what's called confouding effects in statistics - when you can't vary one characteristic and make a measurement ...


ps.  I spent some time in Naples a couple of summers ago and very much enjoyed the shots these machines pulled. In fact, they coffee was great everywhere in Naples on every different lever used.
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beanflying
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beanflying
Joined: 6 Nov 2011
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Location: Australia
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Espresso: 7 of them
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Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011, 2:37am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I have not used either, so feel free to ignore my thoughts.  

Posted November 6, 2011 link

You keep trying to to pursue a definitive answer for this and as stated several times previously I have a preference for one I own over another. Quips of "prove it" or give me the real evidence make you like a horses ass rather than be flogging one.

The OP has asked to keep it on topic which is more than fair as it is their thread. Start a new topic and YOU lay out your thoughts on Group size and what is better or worse.

I know what I prefer and what works for me and it seems that whatever is brought up you want to argue from a point on ZERO experience with different sized lever groups.

x1 Said:

Well, I suppose I'll just have to invite you all up to Squamish for a cup of coffee and you can decide for yourself on the grouphead diameter.  The Bosco 2 grp arrives in about 60-75 days.  Drop me a line if you're in the neighbourhood. I will post pics once it's in and operating.

I think it is really difficult to identify a particular behaviour to a group-head size.  it's what's called confouding effects in statistics - when you can't vary one characteristic and make a measurement ...

Posted November 17, 2011 link

Exactly Levers are not quantifiable like a saturated head pumped machine with +- 1% stability. Look forward to the pics and the results of your playing.

 
Lever Junkie Izzo 3grp, Fioranzato 1grp, Z9 2grp, Cimbali and a Pavoni. 15'ish Siphons plus to much other stuff
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,425
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
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Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011, 8:12am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Tim,

Since you seem to want to continue this, I never said I had no experience with lever machines -- I said I've never used a Bosco or Victoria Ardunio Athena.  That said, a) I've had many shots pulled on a Bosco, b) I've owned other lever machines.  Further, your references to Dalla Corte and La Marzocco GS/3 machines are indeed off-topic, IF we are speaking strictly of lever groups.

beanflying Said:

Quips of "prove it" or give me the real evidence make you like a horses ass rather than be flogging one.

Posted November 17, 2011 link

I'm sorry -- could show me where I laid down any sort of gauntlet and said, "Prove it!"?  (Or, for that matter, can you show me where -- suffering a failure of language -- I resorted to calling anyone names or throwing around insults?)

beanflying Said:

The OP has asked to keep it on topic which is more than fair as it is their thread. Start a new topic and YOU lay out your thoughts on Group size and what is better or worse.

Posted November 17, 2011 link

I was merely responding to a comment you made, and asking for an explanation of something I didn't understand.  And that was perfectly on point.

beanflying Said:

I know what I prefer and what works for me and it seems that whatever is brought up you want to argue from a point on ZERO experience with different sized lever groups.

Posted November 17, 2011 link

Again, I never said I didn't have experience with different sized groups, did I?  I said I never owned a Bosco or Athena, and from what I know of the English language, those are two very different statements.  

OTOH, if you had said to begin with, "I personally prefer shots from a ___mm group," I never would have asked you any questions in the first place.  That is simply personal palate preference, in the same way that some people prefer Shiraz from Margaret River to those from the Barossa, or Ethiopian Sidamo as a single origin espresso over a Brazilian Santos . . . and if that's what you meant when you wrote, "The 55mm groups are a good thing in the flavour department," so be it.  But it sounded to me as though that was a definitive statement, rather than an expression of personal preference, and hence the query.

Then again, perhaps Churchill had it wrong, and it's really the Aussies and Yanks who are "two peoples separated by a common language."

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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JtothaR
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JtothaR
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Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011, 10:29am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

beanflying Said:

You keep trying to to pursue a definitive answer for this and as stated several times previously I have a preference for one I own over another. Quips of "prove it" or give me the real evidence make you like a horses ass rather than be flogging one.

The OP has asked to keep it on topic which is more than fair as it is their thread. Start a new topic and YOU lay out your thoughts on Group size and what is better or worse.

I know what I prefer and what works for me and it seems that whatever is brought up you want to argue from a point on ZERO experience with different sized lever groups.

Posted November 17, 2011 link

I've never seen such a defensive stance taken over such a simple question in all my life.

Jason asked you what makes them better flavor-wise, as you previously claimed. This would be the point where a normal person would proceed to describe a depth of flavor and nuances that differ from a 58mm in the following ways;....  Examples might include: heavier mouthfeel, brighter flavors, sweeter finish, floral nose, etc.

If you are unable to describe what makes a smaller group "better in the flavor department" to you then just say so. No need for childish name calling and repeating what you "stated several times previously" cause none of it so far has answered his simple first question.

I have seen no reference to "proof" nor "evidence" except in your own post.

Also, I'm baffled as to why you think this line of questioning is "off-topic", maybe you can explain that to me. If not, no problem, no one will go off the deep end over it as it seems you have above.

-James

 
Load and Lock.
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donnydregs
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donnydregs
Joined: 6 Dec 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Australia
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Espresso: Elektra A3 / MCAL / E61 Two...
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Posted Fri Nov 18, 2011, 1:59am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Fer Chrissake I think you all have been drinking too much coffee. Penile group sizes aside I just want to see pics of Joe's new machine.

We're all lever heads here. Get a grip!...so to speak.
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,425
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Nov 18, 2011, 8:45am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Don, while I can appreciate the comparison, I'm neither upset nor argumentative.  I was merely trying to understand something that someone posted about the importance of certain sizes.  But, as we all know, it ain't the millimeters, it's the motion (so to speak) . . . and I guess that makes it the 6 M's of espresso!  ;^)

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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x1
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Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 102
Location: x
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Nov 18, 2011, 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Pics will be delivered in ~ 2months.  Estimated delivery time.
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x1
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 102
Location: x
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Nov 18, 2011, 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

BTW,  we are talking about the difference between f*ing excellent, and very f*ing excellent between a 55.75 and 58.3175 mm grouphead.  I will invite y'alls up for a shot though, when it's installed.  That way you can decide for yourselves.
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,425
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 11:22am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

x1 Said:

BTW,  we are talking about the difference between f*ing excellent, and very f*ing excellent between a 55.75 and 58.3175 mm grouphead.

Posted November 18, 2011 link

Now that makes the most sense of anything I've read yet!

x1 Said:

I will invite y'alls up for a shot though, when it's installed.  That way you can decide for yourselves.

Posted November 18, 2011 link

I've got family in Vancouver, so . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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donnydregs
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donnydregs
Joined: 6 Dec 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra A3 / MCAL / E61 Two...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini / HG-One (soon)
Posted Sun Nov 20, 2011, 1:25am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Don, while I can appreciate the comparison, I'm neither upset nor argumentative.  I was merely trying to understand something that someone posted about the importance of certain sizes.  But, as we all know, it ain't the millimeters, it's the motion (so to speak) . . . and I guess that makes it the 6 M's of espresso!  ;^)

Posted November 18, 2011 link

Probably unnecessary but just lightening up is all I was trying to do.
Anyways, who said size does matter? The fourth "M" I think not...
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