chrispitzer Junior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Portland, OR Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008, 11:35am Subject: What should be my first machine?
I'm getting interested in owning a lever espresso machine - but there aren't really places where I can go around here to try one out. Does anyone have one they recommend as a first machine? A machine that's solid and (hopefully) not super pricey?
Also, would you recommend on my first machine that I go for something new or try out something used?
Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008, 1:19pm Subject: Re: What should be my first machine?
For a no assist lever La Pavoni's Europiccola is a popular choice for price. Pretty good espresso though it takes practice. La Pavonis are popular everywhere and if you look around you might be able to find a deal.
For a spring assist Ponte Vecchio's Export is a good lever. Its design isn't prone to overheating like the La Pavonis and the spring assist can make extracting espresso easier. Ist-Line sells them. Not a bad deal for a first lever.
You can go used but be prepared to do some work like cleaning out the cylinder and piston, lubing, possibly descaling, changing o rings, seals and gaskets... if the machine is old. La Pavoni lever parts are pretty stock but with some old levers you have to look around for parts. Orphan Espresso is a good place for hard to find parts.
Whatever you go with a very good commercial grade grinder would be essential, I would say. Lever extracting really needs a good grind that's tailored to your roast, conditions and machine. You need a source of fresh beans too for good taste, crema and extraction rates. I don't think it's possible to get good results with either a preground or overly stale coffee on a lever.
You can look at hand grinders to save some money. Orphan Espresso carries old hand grinders it refurbishes, tests and rates for espresso.
orphanespresso Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 53 Location: Troy Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Cremina Faemina Microcimbali... Grinder: Hand Grinders
Posted Sun Jul 20, 2008, 1:32am Subject: Re: What should be my first machine?
Very good advice all around, and thanks for the plugs, the check is in the mail :) your choice of a lever machine kindof depends on where you are in your espresso expertise, and what your goal is. We like a nice crisp cup and are not crema-holics....good crema is very nice but some of the lever machines produce that amazing "clarity" with notoriously light or transient crema. We favor single origin espresso so we can mix our flavors during the day and experiment with blending and the levers are great for that. We do not make milk drinks (lactose problems) so the open boiler machines, which do not make steam, are perfect for us, and the temperature is very easily monitored with no control systems or overheating problems at all. The La Peppina is a very good open boiler spring piston, the Caravel is top drawer for excellent cups, mrgnomer's advice on the Ponte Veccio is spot on if you are considering new. But at that price, one can try for an Olympia Cremina, which is a lustful machine. La Pavoni is very consistent and easy to use. The Microcimbali is impressive and big, with great steam and very good espresso....nice strong spring. Of course you can get back in time to a Faema Faemina and the list goes on. Think about what you want your machine to do and there is one out there waiting for you, in a wide price range, and I don't think you can really make a big mistake here. Grinders, yes, a big factor, and the hand grinders are an aquired taste for some. We use only hand grinders and it takes little extra time or effort to use one. Some feel they can taste the difference with a hand grinder (we do) and can tell which hand grinder was used in a blind test. Check our site and look at the machines listed in the parts section. We have a couple more on the way and they are indeed eye candy, but the espresso is what counts. Doug
Posted Tue Sep 2, 2008, 7:42pm Subject: Re: What should be my first machine?
Can only comment about the two levers I use and own. The Ponte Vecchio Lusso (PVL) and Elektra Micro Casa a Leva (MCaL). Same grinder same beans distinctly different espresso pulled.
MCaL pulls what I label as a more clearer distinct espresso. PVL pulls an espresso with a heavier mouth feel, thicker heavier longer lasting crema. You loose some the detail of the MCaL shots. PVL is closer to the espresso pulled from a HX/E61.
Both are spring lever machines. PVL is definitely more forgiving. Easier to pull consistent shots. The non-direct, thermosyphon grouphead of the PVL results in decent thermostability. Plan to develop a thermo control technique on the MCaL. MCaL does not tolerate over dosing. Dosing with the MCaL is significantly more critical than the PVL.
The MCaL is beautiful. The PVL is basic looking. Quality of workmanship is reflected in the price you pay for the MCaL relative the PVL. I have the 2 group PVL. Tag teaming between the two groups means pulling shots without having to wait for portafilter pressure drop.
Maintenance overall is similar. I've only replaced the piston gaskets on the MCaL. Straight forward and relatively simple. Gasket replacement on the PVL looks like it will be a bit of PITA due to the spring load and design of the grouphead. Lubing the piston gaskets on the PVL will probably also interesting. One way to reduce piston gasket wear and need for frequent lube is to NEVER pull the lever on the machine until it is up to operating temp.
I really like the espresso, especially single origins pulled on the MCaL. But for daily use it's the PVL. MCaL for slow mornings and "cupping" new SO and blends.
Noel Mano dell 'operatore> Macinadosatore> Miscela> Macchina espresso
Posted Fri Sep 5, 2008, 4:50am Subject: Re: What should be my first machine?
Narc Noel:
Can you please elaborate on your statement that follows:
<<I really like the espresso, especially single origins pulled on the MCaL. But for daily use it's the PVL. MCaL for slow mornings and "cupping" new SO and blends. >>
As a first time espresso machine buyer, I seem to feel that the PVL might be a sturdier machine whose finish will last longer. And it produces a thicker 'spresso.
lethalblonde Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 191 Location: Bailey, CO Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Elektra Micro Casa a Leva Grinder: Innova flat burr Drip: Capresso MT500 Roaster: Big, heavy, old wok;...
Posted Fri Sep 5, 2008, 11:36am Subject: Re: What should be my first machine?
I don't have any experience with the Ponte Veccio Lusso - but my Elektra Micro Casa a Leva is 12 years old and has no problems looking gorgeous! It's a chrome one, not a laquered brass model.
It's my everyday espresso machine, and I could rant on and on - but in the end, it's gut instinct, and I wouldn't dream of going overboard on that aspect of the decision! Quality construction, however? In this category of machine, I doubt the Elektra has longevity competition (but I am biased. . .)!
Crema junkie? The Elektra isn't for you!
But up here @ +9,000ft at just about the end of the road in the Rocky Mountains, the espresso is heavenly (and doubtless will remain so for decades to come with the same Elektra on the counter)!
Jump in and make your choice without second-guessing yourself to harshly - wonderful coffees await!
"The blessing lies not in living, merely, but in living well." Seneca, 8 B.C.
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