Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Latte Art and Etching
Micro foam help
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Micro foam help  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 896
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:11pm
Subject: Micro foam help
 

I use a brewtus iv, and for the past two years, on other equipemnt.  I get the milk rolling and good mixing, I get air into the milk (2%). During the process my nice rolling action suddenly vanishes below a quick thick layer of foam. It almost seem as it comes from no where, when I'm done is it about 1/2 inch think. No matter how little of air I add, this  foam shows up. I use 12 oz of milk. So when I pour out, it is hot milk and them thick foam. No creamy mixture. Where is my process going wrong? My milk is cold and the pitcher is kept cold also.?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SproBro
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Location: Topeka, KS
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: CC1 v1.5
Grinder: Compak K10PB, Vario
Posted Mon Mar 24, 2014, 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

You may consider altering your angle of attack with your steam wand. I don't know what kind of tip you have on your machine, but if my milk is truly "spinning" "rolling" or whatever, the surface of the milk will be moving very quickly just like the rest of it. I notice any bigger bubbles created are instantly pulled towards my steam wand and vanish into the abyss when i'm doing it right. I only have a low-moderate power steaming ability with a single hole tip, so my angle is much different compared to some videos where pro's are using 9000 horse power machine with a 4 hole tip on their wand pointed nearly strait down.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,966
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Mar 25, 2014, 5:30am
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

Are you using a thermometer or "hands-on" technique?

Your problem can be caused by letting the milk get too hot. If using a thermometer, try stopping around 130-140F. If using hands-on, try stopping as soon as the pitcher wall changes from warm to hot.

Your problem can also be caused by the milk. If ALL else fails, try changing brands.

Volume of milk should be determined by steam power and pitcher size. Your Brewtus should have plenty of steam power - even if you were to do 16oz. What pitchers are you using? What's the nominal pitcher volume?

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 896
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed Mar 26, 2014, 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

I'm using a 20oz pitcher and doing about 14 oz milk. I may be getting too high of milk temp, I was getting pretty good at temp control by hand, I can go back to the thermometer and see what I am at. Single tip on the brewtus and I also have a 2 hole tip, which gets hot fast, but recover is fast too.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,966
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 7:25am
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

Hey Terry,

Has the lower temp helped you?  An update would be good.

The pitcher milk volume ratio sounds pretty good for your setup...though that seems like a loit of milk to me.  I find I get better results when using two smaller volume pitchers than one big one, if I need a lot of milk at once - but that's me.

I use the Motta Europa pitchers. I was wondering which pitchers you use because shape has a lot to do with flow inside of it, tilting, staying in the center or near the wall, etc - as well as steam tip holes (number, size and angle).  Wall thickness affects temp lag when using hands-on technique, i.e., if you have a thicher pitcher wall, there's a long lag from inside temp to feeling hot on the hand, so you need to stop frothing slightly earlier than if you have a thin-walled pitcher.

Given you live in Socal, if you can arrange it, the one-day barista training course at Klatch (in Upland) is awesome and very, very well worth the money.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 896
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 7:44am
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

I two pitchers, one is a basic type and the other is that wide bottom style, I cant think of the name off hand. the amount of milk is high as my daily drive cup, 16oz goes with me. On weekend I get into a standard Cap cup  and try my luck. Lower temp did help, but for my travel cup, not very hot, it is a trade off on weekdays. I will most likely do the Katch class in April, they are close as are a few other roasters popping up in the LA area. I just need to sit donw on a weekend and just go thru a lot of milk I guess.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,966
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Mar 27, 2014, 8:02am
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

yeah, I understand the commute thing. I take a 17 oz cup with me to work daily...of course mine has 2 doubles shots in it, so my milk volume stays low.  My wife on the other hand requires a 16 oz cup with less than a single shot in it and extra milk to pour in after she drinks about a 1/4 of it.  For her I do two pitchers of milk, instead of my large one.

Is the wide-bottom style the pro barista or is it really wide, like the Rattleware or Toroid?

Besides frothing a lot of milk, you can try Scott Rao's practice method of adding a tiny droplet of dish soap to water and frothing that instead.  It saves money and is supposedly just as good for practicing. I'd never tried it because it was introduced after I'd taken Heather's class at Klatch.

If you're thinking of doing the Klatch class this April, you'd better call them to make sure there's still apace available.  They only take a handful of students at a time, since it's just Heather teaching it and she wants to give everyone as much attention as possible.  Also, when I was there they only had two commercial machines set up for the class, and there was only room for a third one.  Two students per machine is about what you can handle to give everyone enough space and hands-on time, so that's a class size of 6, maybe seven if you push it - if they've added a machine.  The morning is spent on beans about 3-4 hours of it. We went through 7 pounds just learning to dose, dial and taste.  The afternoon, another 3-4 hours, is spent on milk.  We went through 10 gallons! By the end, i was just learning to pour rosettas, but the rest of the class was still pouring hearts.  Of course, before that, we learned how to froth for latte and how to froth for cappuccino.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 896
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sat Mar 29, 2014, 9:39am
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

Yes Torid is the wide bottom. I got a really nice froth Friday but today not as well.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,966
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Mar 29, 2014, 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Micro foam help
 

Ok, I can work with that...sort of. I had a Toroid for a while, when it first came out. In truth, I felt like using it right was cheating. Because of it's design, it worked best for me to put the wand smack dab in the middle pointing straight down. It was so simple I didn't like it. Kind of like how I'd rather use a chefs knife than a Cuisinart to do my julienne. I think what else baffled me was that the vortex (if you can call it that) was out-in 360, rather than a clockwise or counterclockwise swirl. I think that for me, I'd rather be in total control versus giving a lot of the control to the equipment.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Micro foam help  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.246797800064)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+