I've been using Motta Europas for several years and really like them a lot. Their spout is great for pouring art, and they are really sturdy thick walled high grade stainless. I get a great vortex in them.
I tried the toroid for a while and didn't like it much at all. I felt like the technique was to hold it level and let it do the work, and I wanted to be a "barista", not a pitcher holder.
With the Europas, I was getting awesome microfoam even on a Silvia v1 with the articulating wand mod. I upgraded to a Duetto II last December and my microfoam suffered considerably from inadequate incorporation of the foam and hot milk layers - until I modified my wand - all is back to awesome again.
I have been working with my toroid about a month. I am a long way from perfect or happy with it but so far the best microfoam happens when I put in milk about 1/2" or a bit more below the start of the bell curve. Then stretch till it gets to the top of the curve then sink the wand. IMO, The main problem with the toroid is if you get too much foam it gets into the narrow neck of the pitcher so doesn't get in the rolling milk in the bell bottom of the pitcher when you sink the wand. I have been going by volume for sinking not temp. Often my temps are low at the right volume. If I wait till 100 I end up with foam in the neck that doesn't mix right. Mostly with this pitcher, I have been getting lovely tight bubbled Meringue foams that even stand up in the spoon. I am not talking dishwater, it really does look like a perfect glossy Meringue. (and I know Meringue)
I would love to try that Milk to Perfection pitcher. I want an easy to use pitcher so I can pour and steam at the same time. My Oscar can both at the same time, I just can't seem to handle it if the milk takes too much attention. Also, if it is fool proof I might be able to get my husband to do it when I am not around or maybe even make a drink for me for a change.
Coffeenoobie
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now my problem is pouring a latte art,some say that toroid pitcher is hard to pour a latte art because of spout how they design it,is these true?or still my steam milk not velvety enough to pour a latte art?
Posted Sun Aug 5, 2012, 1:07pm Subject: Re: Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher,help!
I tried the Espro pitchers and did not like the spout nor did I find it improved my steaming significantly compared to my cheap Rattleware pitchers, and also have noticed that most of my local cafes all use them as well very successfully. I resolved that the problem was not equipment but me, and now practice by buying the cheapest fresh roasted beans I can find and a gallon of milk weekly to just to practice art.
i gotta say, I just received my 20 oz and am pleased as punch. I recently made the switch from a silvia to a HX machine with a 4 hole tip and my milk was terrible. I put on a one hold expobar tip, and filled up the espro and viola, it worked like a charm. Poured a nice little rosetta the first time i tried it. I agree that mastering the technique is something I am still working on, and now with the different tip I am sure I will improve a bit, but in the morning when I just want to give a wonderful cappa to my partner, this is the thing. just my .02!!!!!
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Mar 30, 2013, 5:38pm Subject: Re: Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher,help!
I used the toroid a couple times.. Its not my cup of tea, but if your machine has at least decent steaming power, if you follow their instructions, it works pretty well.
Me? I keep a couple different kinds of pitcher in my freezer...
I like Motto Europa pitchers. It might sound silly to spend extra for a steaming pitcher, but THESE pitchers, aren't chintzy. They've heavy gauge stainless, with a handle design that is ideal for both holding during steaming, or for pouring art. And the spout is extremely exxagerated, so its very easy to get it INTO that cup when pouring.
No doubt, my favorite pitchers are Motto Europa. They comes in off sizes though. I suggest the 12oz and 16oz. Even latte drinkers won't need more than the 16oz, its nice sized for pouring into a 12oz latte cup. The 12oz pitcher is perfect for the traditional capp, and bigger 7-8oz drinks. AWESOME for latte art, I can pour ridiculous rosettas with these pitchers in the bigger cup sizes.
Second favorite is Cafelat. Ive got the .4l and .7l(I think its 13oz and 25oz) They have a unique shape that, for steaming, is wonderful, but took some time to get used to for pouring. But they're awesome. And the current ones are even nicer, they're polished. Mine are brushed. I can't pour good rosettas with these pitchers, but I can make BOSS hearts and apples.
Third is my old standy. Classic, straight walled, pointed spout, "Update International" frothing pitchers. Classic 12oz and 20oz. Every Cafe has tons of these, you've seen them Im sure.(Rattleware makes a slightly upgraded version with a better spout). Nice and thin, so you can feel the temp changes easily and quickly. Good spout for pouring latte art, and it has a design which doesn't "influence" the milk. Whatever kind of roll you like to acheive, you can. Some pitchers prefer you spin the milk, others prefer you to roll the milk vertically, others want a pure vortex. THESE pitchers, don't care. Do whatever. I learned how to make microfoam and pour art with these pitchers, so while they might be as nice as the other ones, they still are in my freezer.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sun Mar 31, 2013, 2:08am Subject: Re: Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher,help!
I have a Toroid pitcher, but I'm more likely to use my Rattleware handleless 12 oz macchiato pitcher or one of the other no-name pitchers I've picked up. I can steam milk OK with the Toroid, but it's really designed for the steam wand to be facing straight down to take advantage of the base shape to set up the toroidal flow, and my Gaggia Factory steam wand is at an angle which makes it easier to texture milk with regular pitchers.
I picked up the Toroid thinking it would make texturing and pouring milk much easier, but now I feel that for my equipment it was a wash. What really helped was a latte art class at the Barefoot Coffee Roasters location in Santa Clara that turned into the Chromatic Coffee retail location.
Posted Sun Mar 31, 2013, 1:11pm Subject: Re: Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher,help!
I agree! I have both pitchers and love them! It is sooooooo easy to make micro foam with these . . . even with my Silvia! I agree, that certain milk brands do work better than others . . .
nygel74 Said:
i gotta say, I just received my 20 oz and am pleased as punch. I recently made the switch from a silvia to a HX machine with a 4 hole tip and my milk was terrible. I put on a one hold expobar tip, and filled up the espro and viola, it worked like a charm. Poured a nice little rosetta the first time i tried it. I agree that mastering the technique is something I am still working on, and now with the different tip I am sure I will improve a bit, but in the morning when I just want to give a wonderful cappa to my partner, this is the thing. just my .02!!!!!
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