Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Latte Art and Etching
Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Latte Art: Free...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
Monetvi
Senior Member
Monetvi
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Longview
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Stumptown
Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:39pm
Subject: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

As I began my new life as a Barista and started my creative juices flowing I couldnt wait to get started in Latte art.... did some free pour stuff, but so many leafs you can make before you need to expand....so one video on youtube changed my life...it was an amazing face etched in coffee by some guy in Australia! I ran to work...jumped on a machine and the rest has been history.....

But I get flack all the time from local barista's from my area AND some co-workers that Portraiture is not TRUE latte art! Pour your little leaves, I can draw you the whole dang tree in a cup. From true professionals, is that true? They don't look at that as art? or am i getting flack from green eyed baristas cause they aren't requested by name? I am farely new to this so would like some history, or info behind latte art!

Monetvi: Steven Ty.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
steven_meyer
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 506
Location: San Bruno, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0, ECM  Giotto...
Grinder: HG-One, Mahlkonig K-30 vario
Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011, 1:16pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

If you are making a drink in your own kitchen, feel free to draw anything you want, but in a commercial setting, the whole idea is to make the drinks quickly.  The free pouring of a leaf or Rosetta  is  just an indicator that the drink was made correctly and with pride.  Your picture probably took a little more time to draw than a Barista  takes to pour a Rosetta or leaf.

You admit to being a newcomer and inexperienced. Maybe it may be a good idea to learn before you offer an opinion.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Monetvi
Senior Member
Monetvi
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Longview
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Stumptown
Posted Sun Jan 1, 2012, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Woah pilgrim,

I don't work at Starbucks (which locally we consider the "fast food" of coffee). This is not done in my kitchen either. People come into a "coffee house" to get the whole experience. And you would be surprised how many people would be willing to wait especially if they get to watch it happen. i live in Washington state, where there is a coffee joint on every corner...literally....so bring someone in and keep them coming back, we have to be creative. i will go extra hot and do something much quicker, that last photo i did on a request and was representing if it was seen as latte art or not. I wasn't offering an opinion i was asking a question, whether it was considered really coffee art by other professionals. I can do a standard face very quickly and haven't had one customer complain about it being too cold ... and they are more than willing to wait the extra minute or two for a intricate etching.... this next picture literally ( random face)  takes an extra 40 seconds once I pour by the way. Is that taking away from the product or adding?

Monetvi: 381758_10150526510879027_815014026_11555165_300402831_n.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
SpromoSapiens
Senior Member
SpromoSapiens
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Boise ID
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Riviera Eagle, '91 Livietta,...
Grinder: Vario, KA ProLine, Sozen...
Drip: Clever, V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 25, 2012, 8:41pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

East coast barista here -- got my start in San Francisco, about 5 years' experience at this point. First I'd just like to say WOW -- your etching is spectacular. If I received a drink like that as a customer, and it was also still hot and delicious, I would absolutely be wowed. That said, etching is a very different skill from free-pouring, and it sends a different message. A free-poured rosetta or the like, as Mr. Meyer somewhat curtly pointed out, is a deceptively simple and elegant calling card of milk well frothed, which is in turn a promising sign that care was taken to perfect the shot as well, all of which amounts to reassurance prior to tasting that the drink will be excellent and the establishment takes pride in its product. While I don't doubt your free-pouring skills, and though customers are free to witness the etching if they want, I think it remains true that someone with no milk skills at all could step in and do an etching, just as someone with excellent frothing and free-pouring skill might not know the first thing about etching. Neither of these is any guarantee of quality espresso of course, but because etching requires a tool that's not necessary to the fundamental milk-drink process, and because it also happens after the entire drink has already been prepared, it's ultimately a gilding of the lily. A parlor trick, if you will, after the important work has already been done.  

Moreover, if you are in fact you're going "extra hot" to accommodate the etching process (either for a desired milk texture or to buy time before serving), you're essentially prioritizing the visual aspect over the drink itself, as extra heat changes the way milk tastes and feels. If we are to get super technical about it, "extra hot" is another way of saying "scalded," which is how milk should be for a traditional Cafe Con Leche, which is not a latte. Customers may order lattes "extra hot" from time to time, and it's hardly our place as servers to be overly nitpicky about terminology when we know the gist of what they want in the end. How many customers know the difference between a cortado, a macchiato, and a piccolo? Not many. To stick to the point however -- Is the etching taking away from the product? Maybe not enough for anyone to complain in the face of the wow-factor it adds, but an absolute purist or a real shtickler for espresso protocol (such as coffeegeek baristas tend to be) would say that something may indeed be getting lost in the phenomenon. Is it adding to the product? If all other things remain perfectly in line -- sure, it's an awesome trick and a rare gift. But the Harlem Globetrotters ain't a real basketball team, know what I'm sayin'?

Really, though, I think the main point from your peers behind the counter is that the free-pour is an element of style that occurs in the line of natural drink prep (milk has to be poured at some point, after all), whereas the etching is an extra bell/whistle. But hey -- if it keeps the tips coming in, the customers happy and the business afloat, I'll take an 8oz triple soy Mona Lisa, what the hell. By the way, is the etching in the pic in your first post supposed to be Steven Tyler? If so, I say again -- wow! Either way, it's damn cool.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
bjornm
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 17
Location: New York
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Qiuckmill Anita
Grinder: Robur E, Baratza Preciso
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 3:48pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Went in to this thread to give you some criticism, but I have to say that is nice work!

I would not call it latte art™ but it is definitely art alright. Deserves its own term.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Monetvi
Senior Member
Monetvi
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Longview
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Stumptown
Posted Tue Feb 21, 2012, 4:48pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Hey East Coast.

I appreciate your info, your explanations and opinion and all done with out the huge chip on your shoulder. Good stuff there....you brought up the milk, the milk has to be done to a just right consistency and that of your standard free pour art. Instead of the heart, leaf etc. I make a circle and a "halo" on some pics and sketch from there. Lots of care are put into the crema and the creme so I have just the right pallet to work with. I do "free pour" art as well, but the rossetta wasn't cutting it for me, nor was it original. Picasso's work wasn't the norm in his time....but it was original and memorable. And that's what we want for our customers correct? a product that wows, and is delicious...anyway, I enjoy all peoples comments and info and I keep enjoying coffee, coffee customers, my establishment and coffee geeks as well :)

By the way...this ones for you.....

Monetvi: mona little.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
diggi
Senior Member
diggi
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Halifax, NS
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2
Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO
Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,...
Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Tue Feb 21, 2012, 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Monetvi Said:

By the way...this ones for you.....

Posted February 21, 2012 link

Ha! very nice.  You got a Dolly Parton?......waist up
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SpromoSapiens
Senior Member
SpromoSapiens
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Boise ID
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Riviera Eagle, '91 Livietta,...
Grinder: Vario, KA ProLine, Sozen...
Drip: Clever, V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 5:12pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Ha! I second the "ha." Monetvi, you're a visionary and a gentleman. That's friggin awesome. Is it actually soy? Does soy make it harder or easier to etch? What about other milks -- almond for example? Almond is exceedingly tricky to microfoam and pour artfully; maybe I should work on my etchings just for the rare almond scenario.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Monetvi
Senior Member
Monetvi
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Longview
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Stumptown
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Its not Soy :(  soy as you probably know is difficult to get a good etching with... I have only done a free pour with the almond, as I don't get much request for it, that was next on my list when things are slower to see what I could come up with. Thank you for the compliment. By the way, .....I am a lady ;)   Have a great day!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
SpromoSapiens
Senior Member
SpromoSapiens
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Boise ID
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Riviera Eagle, '91 Livietta,...
Grinder: Vario, KA ProLine, Sozen...
Drip: Clever, V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 8:52am
Subject: Re: Latte Art: Free Pour vs. Etching
 

Gasp! Forgive my presumption, Monetvi; don't know where that came from exactly, but I hadn't clicked on your profile yet. Now that I have, I know you're working with some top-quality coffee, and I can say that the Electric Bean seems like a fully awesome institution. Thanks for being there and making it happen!

Re: Soy -- I wasn't sure, I figured it could go either way. The rapid separation I guess lets some bigger bubbles rise to the surface pretty quickly and also results in a sticky dry foam, which I suppose is bad for etching, but then again the separation also quickly results in a sturdy platform of foam that remains intact and preserves the art once it's there, which is cool. You can gently sip a soy latte out from under that lid of foam and leave a virtually undisturbed lotus resting at the bottom of the cup, which is how I like to enjoy my soy drinks. Although that's also because I'm more interested in the coffee than the foam, which is also why I usually drink my shots straight up -- but I digress.

Separate question: Are you using a milk thermometer tip for your etching or do you have your own unique tools?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Latte Art: Free...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.26858997345)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+