I can't seem to keep from having too much froth in my milk. Not stiff froth, it's nice and smooth, but in trying to start to work on a little art, it won't sink. Swirl it, not swirl it, let it set, pour right away, doesn't seem to make a difference. I think what I want is a little thinner under so that it pours through the espresso, and then froth on top for the last, but the whole pitcher is too thick and I haven't been able to not get it that way. Makes for some rich, smooth cappas, but no artwork. What am I doing wrong when frothing. I'm down to 'stretching' for just 3 or 4 seconds. Using a Gaggia, took the thingie off, it was detrimental and created big bubbles, just using the top part of that attachment on it. Thanks.
It seems that your froth assist tip may be working to well. It's true that when making foam, less is more when it comes to latte art, and then it must be incorporated into the milk. Can you find the inlet of the air? Have you tried surfing the hole by only half-submerging the inlet hole, or less than half? Have you tried taping part of the hole to decrease the air? I had minimal, but partial success with this surfing technique in this thread. I could also repeat what you do know, which is to ensure that it's all mixed up as much as possible together during the remaining 3/4+ time frothing...and also after frothing. Another thing would be to alter your height and speed as you pour. I find that starting off a little high and slow, while stirring it with my thinned stream a little for a few seconds first really helps. Then I tilt more, and bring the cup and jug really close to each other. This pouring stream is not consistent. It's slow and thin and just hardly tilted to begin, then brought together to dump off the foam the rises to the top as to join with the flowing thinner milk to make the art, then reverse it again to finish, for a thin stream to push a heart's centre, or add the stem to a rosetta leaf. The manipulation of the top of the foam into the rest of the thinner underlying milk is the upmost important step, but seems to be the hardest to and least talked about step. Some video studies may help, as they helped me. Forget the art. Don't look at the cup, or into the coffee. Look at the hands of the artist, and how the person manipulates the tilting and distance of cup and jug as the pour happens. Oh, and use cold fresh 2% to 3.75% milk fat. You can get nice foam that doesn't like to incorporate otherwise.
_________/\|_/\|\|_|>__________| http://www.flickr.com/photos/olph4rt/ | + | It takes an average of 42 beans to make a shot. Douglas Adams wrote in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that 42 is the meaning of life...coincidence?
Thanks for the info. I took the lower end of the froth assist off. That leaves just the upper apparatus, a slleve that is over the stainless tube, with a single hole nozzle. I've been surfing the hole for just a few seconds, then plunging it. Still too much froth. Nice smooth froth, but still too much. From reading the rest of your post, I think I'm fairly well following along those lines. With the exception of the pour height. I'll play with that this evening.
Anyone know of any shops around with baristas practicing decent art near NE Indiana? I've hit a number of shops, but have never seen it. Be nice to watch a time or two.
It's got to be the froth, I've watched a number of videos, and try to emulate, but my milk flows over the surface, not under it.
It sounds like you're not getting the milk to whirlpool enough in the second stage. If the milk doesn't swirl around when you sink the wand, you won't incorporate the froth into the milk and it will separate into a cap of froth on top of the hot milk. It's hard to get enough velocity on the stock Gaggia steam wand to really swirl the milk. I never managed to make it happen until I upgraded to a Silvia steam wand. Then it was easy. It's a relatively cheap and easy upgrade, so I'd suggest you get a Silvia wand and see if that helps.
Also, you can experiment with different positions for the steam wand in the milk and see if you can make it whirlpool that way. Try tilting the pitcher and putting the wand near one side. Sometimes that helps.
Got the whirlpool going too, usually to the point that as it nears 150 degrees, I have to change the angle in the pitcher to keep it from whirling over the side. I don't know, I've been playing all week with it. By the time the milk is hot enough, it's too thick, just pours across the espresso surface. It looks good in the pitcher, now that I know what it is, I can say it's micro, problem is, it's all micro, no milk left to it to pour.
*! Would a larger pitcher, more milk, help the issue? Have to give that a try. If not, ordering the Silvia steam arm may be the way to go.
If you can take Beezer's advice on changing your wand to the Silvia's then it's the route to take. I couldn't on my machine, so I made up a contraption that resulted in the Silvia tip being installed on my wand. This alone was worth it's more than it's weight in gold because the art really was easier to create after the mod was completed. If you cannot switch over to the Silvia wand then the only other input I have is to ask you if you stop making foam at about 80 degrees f, but maybe your physical setup won't allow you to stop foaming at all? It is vital to bury the wand tip and don't let it see light until the steam had stopped coming out of the wand. Have you also tried changing the quantity of milk? A few oz too much or too little will give you different results. I find that a 20oz pitcher is easier to use than a 12oz one because I can really swirl the heck out of it after, and vortex the heck into it when in process. You will also eliminate your "swirling over the side" issue. Also tapping the milk on the counter more than a couple of times will make all the foam seperate, and you have to swirl again. This could be an issue -too much of a good thing. Really, Beezer's advice to switch wands is fantastic. Any chance of a photo or something to relate to? Otherwise, the advice is truly blind. Unlike justice, advice likes visual!
_________/\|_/\|\|_|>__________| http://www.flickr.com/photos/olph4rt/ | + | It takes an average of 42 beans to make a shot. Douglas Adams wrote in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that 42 is the meaning of life...coincidence?
FCPlus Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Indiana Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Apr 12, 2008, 1:06pm Subject: Re: Trouble getting milk to consistency
Photos are a great idea. And I'd do that if a Microsoft update hadn't made it impossible for me to get photos downloaded from my camera. I haven't been out to pick up a card reader yet, which seems to be the simplest solution.
FWIW on the topic of the updates, I had my son come up to check out the error message I was receiving, "Power surge on USB device." He works in the industry and after a little research pointed out a couple of articles to me on this topic. Folks randomly lose access to various devices that connect to a USB port; printers, cell phones, cameras, etc., after receiving an update. No sense to it, no-one has a good answer as to why this device or that, this brand or that. Various means of dealing with have been attempted with varying degrees of success. A y-connecter to plug 1 device into 2 USB ports, small programs to suppress the surge, the impression of a surge, etc. So if you ever lose access to one of your devices..... good luck.
To the topic at hand, more milk didn't help, it frothed it to the same degree. I can stop frothing whenever, not sure what you meat by that, and to stop at 80 degrees would be a pretty cool drink. No pun intended.
I'll pick up a card reader when I can, this topic of the Gaggia froth wands comes up fairly often and I don't recall having seen photos before. Wouldn't you think they'd just put on a good device? I understand trying to help noobs towards an end, but to what/which end? You make it possible for them to steam milk and have froth to one degree or another fairly easily, but then make it impossible for them to to go past that.
I think the problem could lie in how hot you're steaming your milk. If you turn of the wand when the thermometer hits 150, then the milk is still going to end up close to 160, close to scalding.
I steam my milk to around 140 and can consistently pour latte art. I'm not saying it's only because of the temp, but the proteins are broken down too much when it gets too hot.
Try to look at and feel the milk instead of being tied to a certain amount of seconds or a specific temperature. Each pitcher is going to be slightly different, so you have to be slightly adaptable.
Thanks for this. I've also been having trouble forming a decent art. I tapped the milk 5-8 times just to get any bubbles out but I've used the advice from this thread to surf a little lower than I had been, submerge at 80-85 and stop at around 130-140 (using full and 2%), but this tapping advice I think is making the biggest impact. It's pouring much better. My technique is still not great to get the beauties I've seen posted but this will help.
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