Espresso: Latte Art and Etching Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help! Espresso Machines Free shipping & 2 year warranty on models from Rancilio, Saeco, Gaggia, Solis, Bosch, Pasquini... www.seattlecoffeegear.com   Not Logged in: log in updated topics   new posts   new unanswered   search   faq   sign up   Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Foam and Fizzle...   view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics showing page 1 of 2 last page next page Author Messages stanley_c_wong Senior Member Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Singapore Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Krups 5020 Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 4:11pm Subject: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   I just got a Rancilio Silvia. I looked through the many articles concerning the Silvia, including those specifically concerning latte art. I got myself a 12oz stainless steel milk jug with shaped spout designed for latte art, and a thermometer and clip from a barista supply store. I practiced the technique with skim milk (easier) and was more or less successful. I tried again with half-and-half (2%fat) and have not been successful. I have tried over 10 times. I either get what I call a "foam" or a "fizzle". In "foam", the top foam comes out and already fills the top of the cup before the level is halfway. In "fizzle", the level goes up and up but the "white spot" that is supposed to signify the start of the latte art move, never materialises. I use a free pour method and do not use a spoon to block the foam on the initial pour as I feel that is not correct. Additional information: I pour for 2 cups at a time, the cups are not the semi-hemispherical shape but not exactly a cylinder either. I suspect that the milk has separated but I thought I did the texturing correctly. Any help would be much appreciated.  Thank you. Stanley back to top Beezer Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Fresno, CA Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Quickmill Anita Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 7:02pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Don't give up.  It takes a lot of practice to perfect latte art, but you can do it.   Are you stretching the milk (adding air) up until 80 or 100 degrees, then submerging the wand to get a whirlpool?  If the milk and foam separate out, then you didn't get the whirlpool right.  Try practicing with water if it bothers you to waste milk.  You want to add just enough air to expand the milk a bit, then submerge the wand and get the milk spinning.  If you do it right, the milk will be very creamy and it will pour nicely.  Spinning and thunking the pitcher after you steam also helps to keep everything incorporated. back to top pilgrim5 Senior Member Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 161 Location: Saint Paul Park Minnesota Expertise: I live coffee Grinder: Bunn & supremo Vac Pot: Bodum Santos/aeropress Drip: Bunn VPR series Roaster: BBQ bred mach heat gun and... Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 8:51pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   I use skim milk and have great luck with it.  I keep the pitcher in the freezer and when i know i am going to make a latte i pour about 3 oz of milk into the pitcher and stick it back into the freezer, and then start to make the espresso by the time i am done making the espresso i get out of the freezer the pitcher with the milk and froth the milk seems super cold milk is much easier to froth than just out of  the ice box gives you more time to play with it to get it right. Make sure you blow down the steam wand to get dry steam before you start to forth the milk the skim milk works so well i have no intention to change it.  I think the more butter fat in the milk will make it harder to froth but i do know others that use it all the time so its all in the technique you are using. Watch some of them froth milk on youtube.com  it will sure help you understand whats happening and use a thermometer i stop at 140 degrees and it will rise to 150 there is a time lag in the reading of a dial type thermometer back to top stanley_c_wong Senior Member Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Singapore Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Krups 5020 Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 10:27pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   A big thanks to those that replied. Here is what I do. 1/Fill jug with 2% fat milk and place in fridge or feezer. 2/Heat up until heater light goes off.  Place portatfilter into grouphead and run water into 2 cups until lights 3/comes on again. 4/Dry portafilter, grind coffee beans into portafilter and place the portafilter into grouphead. 5/Wait until light goes off.  Pour away water from cups and start the flow into the cups. 6/Switch on steaming switch to force heater to on during brewing. 7/20-25s, switch off bewing.  Go get jug and place thermometer into milk (held by clip). 8/Wait about 1 min, bleed water from steam wand until I get dry steam. 9/Insert steam wand tip deep into milk, open valve, bring tip to surface and start to stretch, concentrating to get that slurping sound. 10/At 40 degrees Celcious (should I do it sooner?), I bring the tip down and at an angle to start the whirlpool to texturise the milk.  Go up to about 60-70 degrees Celcius, close valve.  Clean tip. 11/ Swirl and pound, pound and swirl, until I see silky texture on top, with no big bubbles, or until I get bored. 12/Pour.  I start at about 1 cm from rim nearest to me and quickly move to 1 cm away from further rim.  [This is where I either get fizzle or foam]. 13/Failure.  Save what I can. Where did I go wrong? I have a new problem.  I finally managed to get something like a Rosetta (if you squint real hard) on both cups and then large bubbles started to appear and ruined the image.  it never happened before.  I wonder what changed? Thank you. I think I will cheat and try skim milk for a while.  It will help and tummy line as well. Stanley back to top thisisshane Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Perth, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista Espresso: Breville 800 Class Posted Sat Apr 5, 2008, 12:17am Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Firstly, it seems to me as though you are taking all of the necessary steps to ensure that your milk is well textured and ready for producing some beautiful coffees! I can only see the reason as to your problem with milk separation relating to the fact that you ARE using skim milk. Skim milk, whilst in the eyes of some is seen as "easier" to froth. When it comes to having a quality jug of steamed milk, it is ESSENTIAL that you have as much fat content as is possible. Over here in Australia, there has been a release into the commercial market of "Barista" milk, whose fat content is much higher than that of regular full-fat milk. Referring to point number 10 in your preparation list - you have absolutely NAILED the correct temperature and technique with your milk. It is essential to introduce the air into the milk until the desired "thickness" is reached and then to spend the remainder of your time whilst reaching the correct temperature "smoothing out" or "texturing" the milk. In review - Skim or Half-Half Milk will always separate quicker than Full-Fat Milk. Increase your Fat content and your results should improve. Cheers :) back to top misterdarling Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 17 Location: Aussie Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Breville Cafe Roma... Grinder: Sunbeam Multigrinder Vac Pot: not sure Drip: none Roaster: none Posted Sat Apr 5, 2008, 3:41pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   I completely agree with the above comment :] You are doing the right thing and i find myself i pour better art in my coffee than my dad's. This is because i use whole milk and my dad has light milk. Frothed skim or light doesnt compare to frothed whole. Just my 2 cents aaron back to top stanley_c_wong Senior Member Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Singapore Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Krups 5020 Posted Sun Apr 6, 2008, 10:44pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Thank you darling & shane. OK.  I will try with whole milk and see how that goes. I only tried with skim milk the first time and have been using 2% milk since. I doubt that "barista grade" milk wil be making an appearance in Singapore anytime soon. If I do get happy-happy results, it would be wonderful.  But it would mean that I would have to cut back on my lattes or exercise more.  And while I do love my lattes..  :) P.S.  I did managed to get slightly better results (triple hearts  in one cup!) by following the same techniques but making sure the milk was colder to start with (freezer for 5 mins).  I still had a problem with the foam coming just a tad too late.  I think it is due to milk separation again. Stanley back to top Beezer Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Fresno, CA Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Quickmill Anita Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless Posted Tue Apr 8, 2008, 4:56pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Everything you're doing sounds good to me.  It may be just a subtle problem, or you just need to keep practicing.  From the sound of things, you're getting better results, so it's probably mostly about getting more practice. You might want to post a video of your technique.  That might reveal any mistakes that might not otherwise be apparent. back to top mgwolf Senior Member Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 277 Location: Plymouth, MN Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Vivaldi 2 Mini, Olympia... Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Yama, Sunbeam C50 Drip: Krups Moka Brew, Chemex Posted Tue Apr 8, 2008, 6:18pm Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Also, bear in mind that some brands of milk work much better than other ones for some reason.  And whole milk is much easier  to work with than skim.  Michael back to top stanley_c_wong Senior Member Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Singapore Expertise: I love coffee Espresso: Krups 5020 Posted Tue May 13, 2008, 7:07am Subject: Re: Foam and Fizzle - Milk separation?  What did I do wrong?  Help!   Post a video?  A good idea?  But I do not know how. Anyhow, I found that I got better results with full cream than low fat.  I also found that low fat fresh milk separated much faster than any other milk.  But oddly, mixing some full cream in it worked wonders. I still have that problem when the cup get full and the white spot has still not appeared.  Any down and dirty ideas how to fix that?  Oh, yes, I have been slupring up the excess. Stanley back to top showing page 1 of 2 last page next page view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics Discussions > Espresso > Latte Art > Foam and Fizzle...   updated topics   new posts   new unanswered     search   faq   sign up   Not Logged in: log in Discussions Quick Jump: Select Espresso Discussions --Espresso Machines --Lever Espresso Machines --Grinders - Espresso --Espresso Mods and Restorations --Espresso Blends --Questions and Answers --Latte Art and Etching --Barista Jams Around the World --General Discussion Coffee Discussions --Machines and Brewing Methods --Home Roasting Talk --Questions and Answers --General Discussion Columns, How-Tos, and Reviews --Holiday Gift List Feedback --CoffeeGeek Columnist Feedback --Detailed Review Feedback --Products First Look Feedback --Quickshot Review Feedback --Guide Article Feedback --How-To Article Feedback --CoffeeGeek Podcast Feedback Members Forum --Bug Reports and Suggestions --Buy, Sell and Trade --Retail Coffee Jobs Offered / Wanted Ads --Coffee Recipes --Cafe and Bean Reviews --CoffeeGeek Site Info and News --General Off Topics World Regional --United States West --United States Central --United States East --Western Canada --Eastern Canada --United Kingdom --Western Europe --Eastern Europe, Nordic Countries, and Russia --Central and South America --Australia, New Zealand and Asia Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit      = No New Posts since last visit     = Newest post Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. 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