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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Need help with...  
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 5:32am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

atytse Said:

I just switched different beans and have the setting at 4 and the extraction just gushed out.  Maybe I really need finer grind setting with the Virtuoso?

Posted November 6, 2013 link

There's really nothing you can do, the Virtuoso is meant for coarse grinding not espresso. Re-calibration just makes sure it's not running out of wack, won't fix the issue that the steps are too wide (basically you'll find one click a gusher and the next to be too tight more like choking).

You need either the Preciso or Vario for espresso. But yeh on the Baratzas you want to always have power on when changing grind setting, really any grinder.
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moosepucky
Senior Member
moosepucky
Joined: 6 Jun 2009
Posts: 153
Location: USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Grinder: Super Jolly - Forte BG -...
Vac Pot: Cona - Santos
Drip: Bodum - Chemex - Hario -...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828-B
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 7:47am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

You found that "tweaking" just gives you more adjustment room higher or lower at a setting level.  You said 2 was where you were grinding so setting to finer (inside) would move this # up a step or more depending on where you moved the internal mark to.  It just moves the grind point up or down from the current number is all so going finer would let you grind a 3 or 4 instead of 2 to get the same results which would give you more "head room" in the finer range.

what you should do is measure and time your shots to a set volume.  I like 18-20 seconds to pull a 2 oz shot using 14 grams of grounds.  Use a shot glass with 1/2 oz measurement lines on it.  To set up your "system" you need a scale, stop watch. and 2 1/2 shot glass marked in 1/2 oz increments.

try to work with the same weight of grounds.  weigh your ground beans.  Either put the portafilter on your scale and tare to its weigh then add the grounds or weigh the beans after grinding then add to the portafilter.  You should try to get within .2 gram of the 14 gram double "target" when setting up to avoid throwing in too many variables

First make sure you are getting 2 oz in the glass with your 14 oz of grounds.  If you are over or under pulling (getting  more or less than 2 oz on a double setting) then you need to reprogram your double volume on the machine.  Don't worry about the shot or the time it takes at this point as you are only setting volume through the machine.  You want the machine to run 2 oz of water for a double.

Once you have the volume (2 oz for double) dialed in on the machine you can move to how long it takes to get that 2 oz shot.  Like I said I like 18-20 oz for my machine, yours may be different and this is where the grind comes in.  

You adjust the time of the pull by changing the setting on your grinder.  Finer will make the pull go longer.  If you find you are running 10 seconds you need to go finer on the grind.  If you find the pull is longer than 20 seconds then you need to go coarser on the grind.

You want the pull to stop right at the point that the shot turns to blond so that you don't over extract.  This may change with the beans you use so all I have set is just a basic starting point for you, not a "rule" or even a "suggestion".
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atytse
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Oct 2013
Posts: 26
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 7:54am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

Thanks so much for your detailed reply! I think something is wrong with my grinder.

Even if I set the grinder setting to 0, the once nice brown long tail turn into a water gushing pull in about 3 seconds in.  Before this has happened, I might be able to see brown long tail for about 15 seconds before it turned blond at a grinder setting of 4.

I thought about maybe my Oscar Nuova is malfunctioning from from the water coming out and from the heat it's generating, I don't see that big of a difference so the grinder is probably the culprit here. I might have to bring it in to the reseller and see what they think.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 8:36am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

atytse Said:

Thanks so much for your detailed reply! I think something is wrong with my grinder.

Even if I set the grinder setting to 0, the once nice brown long tail turn into a water gushing pull in about 3 seconds in.  Before this has happened, I might be able to see brown long tail for about 15 seconds before it turned blond at a grinder setting of 4.

I thought about maybe my Oscar Nuova is malfunctioning from from the water coming out and from the heat it's generating, I don't see that big of a difference so the grinder is probably the culprit here. I might have to bring it in to the reseller and see what they think.

Posted November 6, 2013 link

It is the grinder, even if you calibrate/realign it (instructions are on Baratzas site). No sense in asking the reseller what's wrong, the Virtuoso doesn't work for espresso period. You should ask the reseller if you can trade in for a Preciso or Vario. Plus as beans age, or you use different SOs, or blends etc, the beans react different to grind (even the same bean as it ages usually needs some tweaking with the micro adjustment on the Preciso and Vario to keep dialed in). The Virtuoso just has wide steps and that's what will hold you back from doing so, especially on the Oscar and other more high end machines. Even if it's not working right, it doesn't work for espresso when it's working "right" either ;)

You can try as suggested playing with dose/weight amount, but that'll just frustrate you more each day or if you change beans/blend. You have an awesome machine (Oscar) that needs a good grinder.
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atytse
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Oct 2013
Posts: 26
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

Thanks for your help and explanation! I would like to trade it in but the reseller won't take it as they don't have a 2nd hand program. I certainly don't want to give up on it just yet since I splashed 200+ USD for it only 6 months ago...
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 9:37am
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

atytse Said:

Thanks for your help and explanation! I would like to trade it in but the reseller won't take it as they don't have a 2nd hand program. I certainly don't want to give up on it just yet since I splashed 200+ USD for it only 6 months ago...

Posted November 6, 2013 link

It'll be like buying a race car and slapping on all season suv tires on it and trying to go racing ;) . The reseller should have told you, but many don't even know themselves whats espresso capable or not lol.
Your trying to use a a grinder that's meant for grinding coarse (drip, press etc) for espresso, just won't work. Otherwise it's sorta a waste with the Oscar which is an excellent machine as you won't be able to pull good espresso/coffee.

You should sell it yourself locally, and then buy a Preciso if budget is tight. There are hand grinders as well, you could buy a Hario Skerton and do the lock nut mod to make it stepless to use for espresso grinding. I'm not sure what it cost over there but it's like only $40-50 here.
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sherpakid
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Silvano
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Chemex, Aeropress, Clever...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Need help with Baratza Virtuoso
 

CMIN said it best. Is the grinder capable of choking an espresso machine? Yes, it can. Is it capable of dialing in an espresso shot? No it's not. The steps in between each click are too far apart. The only way I solved this problem was by buying a Preciso, which I then upgraded to a Vario and I'm pleased now. Put your Virtuoso up for sale and you can put those funds towards a Preciso or Vario - I'd recommend the Vario.

 
www.prohibitionspecialtycoffee.com
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