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New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > New ('03 used)...  
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MadDawg1076
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas, TX
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 3:03pm
Subject: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

I just picked up a used SJ from a cafe owner that closed her shop.  It was stated that the burrs were installed very shortly before the cafe closed so they should still be brand new.  They certainly look very new, and feel very sharp to me, but they seem to grind a little slower than what I seem to be finding as the average SJ speed.  The grind quality is fantastic, and the shots taste great!

I am getting about 16-18 second grinding time needed for a 14-16 gram double shot.  I am using the hopper, and it has about 1/2lb of beans in it currently. I am sweeping the chute out, and have done the tape mode to the doser so it is getting 99% of the grinds out for each shot.

I have four five two probable scenarios that I have come up with:
1. The burrs are not broken in and will get faster
2. They are not new burrs at all, instead very, very worn (I will admit, I have not seen a new pair myself so I could be wrong about how these look...)
3. The repair guy did her dirty and put in mini-e burrs which are much slower
4. Something else is wrong?  The grinder sounds great, but was caked with cinnamon-bunn flavored coffee junk all over when I got it.  I did a full tear-down and cleaned it all with alcohol. (It no longer smells like a pastry)  What could, other than the burrs, cause it to grind so slowly?
5.  The burrs were replaced with cheaper knock-offs

*Edit*  "They certainly look very new, and feel very sharp to me" from above... I must have been crazy!
           I had never held new Mazzer burrs up close before, they certainly made me re-evaluate what I consider sharp to be.
           The old burrs had nicks and defects that were definitely not present in the OEM Mazzer replacements
 
           Summary from post beyond this:
           The burrs did not have anything etched onto them, they were either the original burrs from '99, or cheaper knock-off replacements.
           Pictures of the burrs in a later post, please feel free to help me decide which one it was!

Thank you for the help!
Chris
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schwaggy
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Apr 2013
Posts: 20
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto III
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Type A w/ SJ...
Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 5:43pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

You could certainly take the burrs out and see what number is marked on the back. That will at least eliminate the installation of Mini E burrs which are 191D.
SJ are going to be 33M or 33D
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johnboddie
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 210
Location: Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: MCAL, Brasilia Mini Classic,...
Grinder: Rossi RR45a,Rocky,...
Drip: Cuisinart (non-grinding)
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jul 29, 2013, 6:35pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

Re: "The grind quality is fantastic, and the shots taste great!"

This is what we put the money into good grinders for. How much slower is it, that you feel it is a significant problem?

JB
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,840
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jul 30, 2013, 3:59am
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

Looks can and are decieving, a quick way to check them is if you can get a fingernail to catch on the sharp edge, if the nail skates without catching, the burrs are old. The repair shop may have just had the other burrs on hand but who knows?
New burrs are under $40 if you shop aroud, you should get about 18 g of grounds in about 7 seconds. I have had the range give ortke or take about two seconds.

I have a sweep mod that works better and lasts longer than the tape mod, look for the CBSJmod on this site.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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MadDawg1076
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas, TX
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Jul 30, 2013, 3:18pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

Thank you for sharing the mod info.  I plan to get around to putting it in place at some point soon.  I will take another look at the burrs this weekend as well.
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takeshi
Senior Member
takeshi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 986
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

johnboddie Said:

How much slower is it, that you feel it is a significant problem?

Posted July 29, 2013 link

I grind 18g in about 7 seconds on my SJ.
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PeterWWbeagle
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita,CMA...
Grinder: Super Jolly, Mini, Macap
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 6:08pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow
 

After reading lots of posts on several boards, I have a thought about another possible issue:  crummy aftermarket burrs.  There are a ton of no name Italian burrs out there.  I would say that all burrs on eBay are non oem.  

I have read several posts were people took out 5 - 10 year old burrs and put in aftermarket burrs, only to have the grinding get worse.  in light of the fact that there are a million SJs out there, doesn't surprise me that there are lots of aftermarket crap.

if you look at the ads for the best parts sellers, such as Chris, they specifically state they get burrs right from Mazzer etc and NOT from aftermarket suppliers.  funny, real burrs from Chris cost the same as eBay crap.

Personally, the factory burrs last a damn long time.  and, it takes about 7 sec for mine SJs as well.

I am told factory replacement mazzer burrs have model numbers on the back
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PeterWWbeagle
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita,CMA...
Grinder: Super Jolly, Mini, Macap
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 11:22am
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow ITS  CHINEESE FAKE BURRS
 

I THINK I MAY HAVE FOUND YOUR PROBLEM.

this has been bugging me.  There is no way someone can take off OEM Mazzer burrs and replace them with new OEM Mazzer burrs and have the machine operate very differently.  

You stated that the former owner just replaced the burrs a short time before you bought the SJ.   I will bet she used Chinese burrs.

Several people are ebay are selling what they call "MAZZER CLONES."  These are NOT Mazzer clones, just big grinders with Chinese parts.  I have just seen the inside of one.  all the so called clone machine parts are made in China and the maker claims that the burrs are interchangeable with Mazzer.  

If these manufactures are flooding the US market with Chinese grinders, i am sure they are doing the same with Chinese burrs.  Sounds like you have Chinese burrs.
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MadDawg1076
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Dallas, TX
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 2:22pm
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow ITS  CHINEESE FAKE BURRS
 

She actually used a repair company that charged her almost as much as I paid for the grinder for the service... I am actually planning to try and help her get the money back, as she still has another grinder they worked on as well, at least once I can confirm this is what happened.  I agree with you that they are likely Chinese knockoff burrs.  I ordered a set from Chris' that should be in soon so I will know for sure then.

*edit* My burrs do not have a model number on the back, and the cutting angles do look slightly different from the ones I see posted of OEM burrs.
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PeterWWbeagle
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita,CMA...
Grinder: Super Jolly, Mini, Macap
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Posted Tue Aug 6, 2013, 7:04am
Subject: Re: New ('03 used) Super Jolly seems slow ITS  CHINEESE FAKE BURRS
 

Any news?  I have rebuilt several SJs.  all the burrs have the same angle.  factory original  installed oem burrs do not have model numbers, but factory replacement oem burrs, like from Chris, do have them.

I have read some of the china burrs are cast metal and not fully machined.  My mothers Oldsmobile 442 lives on!  

let us know an update.
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