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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Vario...  
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Sat Jul 13, 2013, 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

CMIN Said:

Coffeeron - steel burrs are option for coarse use, I think you loose espresso grinding if you swap for them

Posted July 13, 2013 link

Yes I'm aware of what the recommendations are regarding the burrs. And I know Daves review contradicts the opinions of many a CoffeeGeek, but as he is a well respected member of the coffee community I'm still interested in what he has to say on the subject- and hoping he has in fact tried the steel burrs for espresso. Especially in light of recent experimentation with other grinds used in espresso machines.  Just the way I roll- always open to thinking outside the box.
                                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                                             Ron
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Whitcoatsyndrom
Senior Member
Whitcoatsyndrom
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 178
Location: Roanoke, VA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Office Pulser
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Newco-OCS 12
Roaster: HG/BM
Posted Sat Jul 13, 2013, 1:25pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

DavecUK Said:

Oh, you believe the Vario performs better...wow, why is that, because all the owners say so? Below is a link to a review I did when the Vario first came out, so it's over 3 years old.

Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)

Posted July 13, 2013 link

That was a fantastic, in depth review...a good read!  I just want to point out that people are forums do, indeed, believe something when all the owners say so.  The vario has also undergone some R&D in the last 3 years.  

Although I'm a new Vario owner, I've been quite happy with the low noise, low grind retention, small footprint, and everything else you've probably already read.  I also want to point out that the timer is not so awesome for dosing if you are concerned about high precision (the ability to get that X gram dose every time).  Humidity, type of bean, type of roast etc. will all play into how much coffee is ground in 11 seconds or whatever you set it at.  I weigh my doses individual and still think the timer is amazingly useful:  I weigh my 16 grams and hit start, after 11 seconds is up (what I set it at) the grinder turns off. 11 seconds is is about half a sec longer than it needs to grind my dose and spew out most any retention...one button morning routine is awesome!  People do of course alter the timer to get pretty close to the right dose without weighing, and truth be told, half a gram here and there might not be something you care about.  In general though, using a scale is the most precise and accurate way to go.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Jul 13, 2013, 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

I have not tried the steel burr option on the Vario, as at the time of writing they did not exist. I know they now do steel burrs for coarse grinding, but at the time of the review, I felt they ought to dump the ceramic burrs and put a single knob for grind adjustment. A few years later, they came out with the ProM...much more like it

Click Here (www.mahlkoenig.com)

IMO, the small Vario should have been developed more along these lines, effectively what I said in my review a few years before the ProM came out.....I notice the ProM has steel burrs. In addition my predictions in the review about the grind adjustment/burr carrier mechanism has proven true in practice and has been the bane of many/most vario owners. As to  the comments of Super Jolly owners, who compare against the Vario, you need to be careful. A lot of people who bought used super jolly grinder and then replaced the burrs, will unknowingly be using aftermarket burrs and not genuine Mazzer burrs. It's much harder than you think to get genuine Mazzer Burrs.

Again, another quite old (3 years or so article below)

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/mazzer-burrs
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Sun Jul 14, 2013, 4:29pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

DavecUK Said:

I have not tried the steel burr option on the Vario, as at the time of writing they did not exist. I know they now do steel burrs for coarse grinding, but at the time of the review, I felt they ought to dump the ceramic burrs and put a single knob for grind adjustment. A few years later, they came out with the ProM...much more like it

Click Here (www.mahlkoenig.com)

IMO, the small Vario should have been developed more along these lines, effectively what I said in my review a few years before the ProM came out.....I notice the ProM has steel burrs. In addition my predictions in the review about the grind adjustment/burr carrier mechanism has proven true in practice and has been the bane of many/most vario owners. As to  the comments of Super Jolly owners, who compare against the Vario, you need to be careful. A lot of people who bought used super jolly grinder and then replaced the burrs, will unknowingly be using aftermarket burrs and not genuine Mazzer burrs. It's much harder than you think to get genuine Mazzer Burrs.

Again, another quite old (3 years or so article below)

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/mazzer-burrs

Posted July 13, 2013 link

And another very interesting 3 yr old article. Makes me wonder about the burrs I put in my K-6 when I bought it. Very generic looking set from EPNW. Maybe I should check on getting genuine Compak burrs?
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Jul 14, 2013, 7:40pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

CMIN Said:

kinda goes against what owners of both (or all?) grinders mentioned there. Maybe a flawed early one? I mean you have owners of Super Jolleys and Vario that say they taste the same/similar and SJ is def above those other grinders.

Posted July 13, 2013 link

In my case, that is correct. I am a fan of not only the Vario/Vario-W, but Baratza as well.
As far as grind retention between the Vario, and Compac Kanything it's no contest. There is literally NO grind retention, and less clumping with the Vario. I owned 2 SJ's. They are tanks, and fine grinders. However, for many, the Vario is less wasteful, neater, and like me, others attest that the flavor profile is quite similar to the SJ. More chocolates and caramels, as they both are flat burr grinders. The metal burrs are to make the Vario a pour-over/press grinder.

Dave can has his opinion, but I'll stand with mine.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Jul 14, 2013, 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

DavecUK Said:

I have not tried the steel burr option on the Vario, as at the time of writing they did not exist. I know they now do steel burrs for coarse grinding, but at the time of the review, I felt they ought to dump the ceramic burrs and put a single knob for grind adjustment. A few years later, they came out with the ProM...much more like it

Click Here (www.mahlkoenig.com)

IMO, the small Vario should have been developed more along these lines, effectively what I said in my review a few years before the ProM came out.....I notice the ProM has steel burrs. In addition my predictions in the review about the grind adjustment/burr carrier mechanism has proven true in practice and has been the bane of many/most vario owners. As to  the comments of Super Jolly owners, who compare against the Vario, you need to be careful. A lot of people who bought used super jolly grinder and then replaced the burrs, will unknowingly be using aftermarket burrs and not genuine Mazzer burrs. It's much harder than you think to get genuine Mazzer Burrs.

Again, another quite old (3 years or so article below)

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/mazzer-burrs

Posted July 13, 2013 link

CCS no longer sells the ProM as far as I know. Take that for what it's worth.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Sun Jul 14, 2013, 9:14pm
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

I'm also a fan of Baratza. It sounds like they have a good fix for the problems they were having with the Vario levers drifting. And I would surely like a grinder with low retention like my Virtuoso so I can use a timer- or the W, and just push a button and go. One of these when I have the extra cash that I can justify it I'm sure I'll end up with a Vario on my counter. It was interesting what Dave said in his early review about the fines, I think I'd like to do a comparison between the ceramic and the steel burrs just out of curiosity.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,391
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Mon Jul 15, 2013, 6:05am
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

IMAWriter Said:

In my case, that is correct. I am a fan of not only the Vario/Vario-W, but Baratza as well.
As far as grind retention between the Vario, and Compac Kanything it's no contest. There is literally NO grind retention, and less clumping with the Vario. I owned 2 SJ's. They are tanks, and fine grinders. However, for many, the Vario is less wasteful, neater, and like me, others attest that the flavor profile is quite similar to the SJ. More chocolates and caramels, as they both are flat burr grinders. The metal burrs are to make the Vario a pour-over/press grinder.

Dave can has his opinion, but I'll stand with mine.

Posted July 14, 2013 link

Yeh that is the one thing I love the little/no retention, since I single dose. Have to go to the Versalab or HG-One etc to get a grinder that's as efficient to use for single dosing. All I know is friends Vario easily outperformed his Macap and a Mazzer Mini.  Owners of the K6 have said the same thing regarding taste in the cup with the Vario, which would make sense since the K6 competes with the Super Jolley.

CoffeeRon Said:

I'm also a fan of Baratza. It sounds like they have a good fix for the problems they were having with the Vario levers drifting. And I would surely like a grinder with low retention like my Virtuoso so I can use a timer- or the W, and just push a button and go. One of these when I have the extra cash that I can justify it I'm sure I'll end up with a Vario on my counter. It was interesting what Dave said in his early review about the fines, I think I'd like to do a comparison between the ceramic and the steel burrs just out of curiosity.

Posted July 14, 2013 link

There are some owners that have them that have posted on here or mainly HB. But not sure if they could even do a comparo as the burrs are cut different, not like an exact replica of the ceramic in steel form. Baratza even says you'll lose all espresso capability even if calibrated to fine as the burrs are cut only for press/pour-over etc
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Rhinoevans
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 179
Location: Las Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1, Starbucks...
Grinder: Rocky DL
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: N/A
Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Jul 17, 2013, 6:56am
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

Looking for a new grinder also.  I have used a Rocky(Doserless) for the last 10 years without a single failure, or repair.  If fact , just ordered new burr the other day from Chris Coffee, only because, well, maybe 10 years and time to change.  But still grinds excellent for espresso.  I have read good and bad on the Vario, so I think with my past and incredible reliability with the Rocky I will pass.  I have elected to go with the MAzzer Mini E.  That was the one i  wanted when I bought the Rocky but just didnt want to spend the cash.  I know, i know, its whats in the cup, and people say the Vario is even better, but to be in the cup, it has to work, and not with an RMA return box, no matter how good the customer service is.  JMHO

I also expect the Mazzer Mini E, to even out live the 10 years of faithful service that the Rocky had given.  Rocky will now, be semi retired for DEFAC.  No way can i get rid of a faithful ole friend!
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Wed Jul 17, 2013, 8:00am
Subject: Re: Vario reliability?
 

Rhinoevans Said:

Looking for a new grinder also.  I have used a Rocky(Doserless) for the last 10 years without a single failure, or repair.  If fact , just ordered new burr the other day from Chris Coffee, only because, well, maybe 10 years and time to change.  But still grinds excellent for espresso.  I have read good and bad on the Vario, so I think with my past and incredible reliability with the Rocky I will pass.  I have elected to go with the MAzzer Mini E.  That was the one i  wanted when I bought the Rocky but just didnt want to spend the cash.  I know, i know, its whats in the cup, and people say the Vario is even better, but to be in the cup, it has to work, and not with an RMA return box, no matter how good the customer service is.  JMHO

I also expect the Mazzer Mini E, to even out live the 10 years of faithful service that the Rocky had given.  Rocky will now, be semi retired for DEFAC.  No way can i get rid of a faithful ole friend!

Posted July 17, 2013 link

I respectfully tell you that from a grind quality standpoint, and consistency, the Vario is superior. Neater, less waste as well, and half the price.
This is not just my opinion.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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