Dryhillsjon Junior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2013 Posts: 1 Location: Blenheim NZ Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Fri Mar 15, 2013, 1:24am Subject: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
Hello from NZ! I've just bought a Vibiemme Domobar Super which is about 7 years old so want a grinder which will do the job. Is there a vast difference between the grinders mentioned above? I've even been tempted by a smaller ascaso grinder which would certainly be easier on the pocket! I had a local shop grind coffee in a super jolly and a machine which was a third of the price and I really couldn't see the difference close up. Thoughts? Is that like comparing wines by saying they are both red?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,632 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Mar 20, 2013, 12:49pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
Welcome
Short anser... yes
Really, buy the very best grinder you can afford. The grinder makes the espresso and for the most part, the machine heats and pushes the water through the properly ground beans.
My personal preference is to big commercial grinders so the Mazzer would be on the top of my liist.
Better info helps a lot
How much budget do you have? Hou much room do you have? Are you open to used grinders? They offer much more value for your money.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Mar 20, 2013, 1:56pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
Macap M4 and Mazzer Mini are in the same class and comparable. If you'd consider either one of those, the Rocky is out of the question. It's like asking, should I get a BMW, Mercedes or Hyundai. Yeah, the Rocky would be the Hyundai.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 8:43am Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
I also should mention I owned a Rocky (for a few years) before upgrading to my Macap M4. The difference in the cup was huge! The ease of adjusting the Macap for a proper grind fineness for espresso was also huge...but that's a convenience factor, which, IMO, takes a backseat to espresso quality. That said, the Rocky won't always take you exactly where you need to go in regards to grind fineness, so you often have to adjust your dose to get the extraction right. Me...well...I'd much rather keep my dose the same and adjust grind fineness to get my extraction right.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 2:26pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
Forget the Rocky, not even an option.
Even though Im a big fan of Mazzers, Ive owned two and loved them both and would buy another.. Compared the Mini to the Macap M4.. Id go with the Macap.
Macap is basically a direct competitor to Mazzer. They make the same capability of grinders at slllllighty lower price points. Ive owned a Macap before, the build quality is solid and well put together, so no worries there.
So.. why choose the Macap M4 over the Mini?
Adjustment. Macap has a worm drive, Mazzer has a stepless collar. Both stepless, infinite adjustment, but its FAR easier to make TEENY TINY adjustments with the Macap. on the flip side, its easier(a lot)to go to french press and back on the Mini. I dont suggest using these grinders for anything but espresso, however.
Doser. Macap Dosers beat mazzer dosers hands down. The action is so smooth, it almost feels pnuematic(but its not), and it sweeps so much cleaner. Mazzer dosers, out of the box, suck. However, ten minutes of your time and two or three free mods, and they're wonderfully efficient. The Macap sweeps cleaner without the mod. And yeah, the action of the doser lever is much more satisfying on the Macap.
Doser Star- less coffee gets stuck on the star/vanes of the doser. On the mazzer, you need to put like a half of plastic easter egg(or something similar) over the center of the doser star so coffee falls more neatly into the sections of the doser. The way the macap is designed, you can skip it.
Id buy a Mazzer any day of the week. And if the top end Macaps were still available in the US, Id buy any of them as well. Deciding between the two is tough, because they're as similar as they come. Mazzers are built better than tanks. You could spend ten minutes beating it with an aluminum bat, and probably only damage the dosing chamber. You will never wear out a Mazzer. Macaps are built for commercial environment too, but they will probably buckle under fire from a .50 cal rifle. They're both over built and more than you'd ever need. The doser on the Macap is definitely more efficient than the Mazzers, and the adjustment system is better for minute tweaks.
Buy the Mazzer if you require the absolute best built, most solid piece of equipment you can purchase. Your great, great grandchildren will be able to use it. Buy the Macap if you want to not have to mod the doser out of the box, and can live with regular old commercial workhorse build quality.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,692 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 4:38pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
Jman, thanks for writing that! I searched and searched for info like that before buying my first M4, and frankly couldn't find much worth going by other than the class comparison on HB. I love my M4s for all the reasons you mentioned...so much that when I was getting rid on my Rocky (it was reserved for decaf), I purchased a my second M4. Having never used a Mazzer at home I've always wondered if I'm missing something, but now I'm convinced that I am not - certainly not in this class. I still lust for the quality of a big titan, which is why I want a HG one (with both the major and the robur burr sets), but am very happy with my Macaps for daily use.
MachiatoMan Senior Member Joined: 4 Oct 2012 Posts: 10 Location: NY Metro Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rocket Cellini Premium Plus Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Hario V60 Roaster: Bodum French Press
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:10pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
I dont think the Rocky is a fair comparison. The others are twice the price. Like comparing a $30,000 Hyundai vs a $55,000 Mercedes or BMW. That being said, i had a positive experience with the Rocky. Reliable, consistent within the grimd settings. Not finicky at all. Perhaps i got a good example, as others have been quite on the Rocky. For $300, it would be my choice hands down. I also considered the Baratza Preciso, and it's problems have been well documented.
How about the Baratza Vario? Grind quality has been reported to be in the Super Jolly class. And price is very reasonable.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Mar 23, 2013, 5:05pm Subject: Re: Macap M4 - Rocky - Mini Mazzer
The Rocky is not bad by any means.
Its expensive for what it is.
If you could buy a Rocky for like, $199, tops $250, it would be much more popular with the enthusiasts.. because at THAT price point, the Rocky is a wonderful grinder.(In doser form.. I literally think the doserless rocky is a major reason why so many people think making espresso is hard. The doserless rocky is stale retention and brick-clump city. The doser is much better at delivering a nice fluffy grind)
But regardless, its still entry level. IF thats where you're shopping, fine. But upgrading from a Rocky to a Mini/M4/58mm Burr grinder, is going to be eye opening to say the least. Furthermore, upgrading from the Mini/M4/58mm Burr, to a big commercial titan, is going to be another massive leap in taste and ease of use.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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