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Kicking around buying a new espresso grinder...let's discuss this proposition
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Kicking around...  
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,687
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 12:14am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I dunno; I never had a problem with my Baratza . . . or my Mahlkönig, for that matter.  As long as the MD-50 is a) stepless, and b) continues to work, I'm even more confused that I was before!

Posted March 4, 2013 link

Jake, let me see what I can do for you.
MD-50 is not a bad grinder, far from it. Messy? A bit.
It sounds to me that if you might be a candidate for a pre-owned in good shape Mazzer SJ. (IMO) I've owned 2. I prefer my Vario-W for home use, more consistent, and so far in nearly 4 years, no problems with my original vario, or the W. Nothing's perfect, and yes, things can go a bit offline, but CS is wonderful at Baratza, as you mentioned.

Still, you sound like your confidence factor will be there with the SJ (around $375 used+$45 for new burrs.)
A Major, the next size up, is really huge, and around $600 pre-owned, I believe.
We may even have one on our BST Forum.


EDIT: I'm in no way saying the MD-50 can't grind as well, I just think the Mazzer line is even more indestructible.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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shakin_jake
Senior Member
shakin_jake
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Reddick Fla.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Futurmat Rimini HX One...
Grinder: Rancilio MD 50
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nada
Roaster: Hot Top B
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 9:33pm
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

IMAWriter Said:

Jake, let me see what I can do for you.
MD-50 is not a bad grinder, far from it. Messy? A bit.
It sounds to me that if you might be a candidate for a pre-owned in good shape Mazzer SJ. (IMO) I've owned 2. I prefer my Vario-W for home use, more consistent, and so far in nearly 4 years, no problems with my original vario, or the W. Nothing's perfect, and yes, things can go a bit offline, but CS is wonderful at Baratza, as you mentioned.

Still, you sound like your confidence factor will be there with the SJ (around $375 used+$45 for new burrs.)
A Major, the next size up, is really huge, and around $600 pre-owned, I believe.
We may even have one on our BST Forum.


EDIT: I'm in no way saying the MD-50 can't grind as well, I just think the Mazzer line is even more indestructible.

Posted March 5, 2013 link



~~~unbelieveable, I was actually able to sign in.  Glory be to God in the highest!

Okay, the MD-50 is messy?, I don't think so, in fact the chute between the grind chamber and the doser is wide enough I can get a 1/2" paint brush in to sweep all the grinds out, and what doesn't come out the 1st go around, I hit the switch so the burrs spin again, shut it off immediately and the rest of the grinds in the back of the chamber come flying out, no waste...anyways, needless to say, the MD-50 has been like an old friend for the last 5 years, so it's with great sadness I may be retiring it for a bit as of tomorrow

I bought a new Super Jolly from Chris Coffee.  Had to do it, I've been wanting one, one that has never been molested before.  Sure, I could have saved $300 or so buying used and all that jazz, but if I really wanted to save some money, I wouldn't be drinking espresso at all.  Such is life...if you want to play you have to pay.  The way I see it, that MD-50 doesn't owe me a dime.  IIRC I paid $250 for it including a set of new burrs + shipping, and that was maybe $25 five years ago.  Last I checked tracking (it's 15 miles from me, 2 hours ago), the new SJ is supposed to be delievered here sometime today (just after midnight here right now)

So I guess at this point I'll be looking for some chat on how to get along with my new grinder, ways to use, clean it.  With the MD-50, I have soley been single dosing...pre weighing one shot, grind



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,687
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 9:43pm
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

shakin_jake Said:

~~~unbelieveable, I was actually able to sign in.  Glory be to God in the highest!

Okay, the MD-50 is messy?, I don't think so, in fact the chute between the grind chamber and the doser is wide enough I can get a 1/2" paint brush in to sweep all the grinds out, and what doesn't come out the 1st go around, I hit the switch so the burrs spin again, shut it off immediately and the rest of the grinds in the back of the chamber come flying out, no waste...anyways, needless to say, the MD-50 has been like an old friend for the last 5 years, so it's with great sadness I may be retiring it for a bit as of tomorrow

I bought a new Super Jolly from Chris Coffee.  Had to do it, I've been wanting one, one that has never been molested before.  Sure, I could have saved $300 or so buying used and all that jazz, but if I really wanted to save some money, I wouldn't be drinking espresso at all.  Such is life...if you want to play you have to pay.  The way I see it, that MD-50 doesn't owe me a dime.  IIRC I paid $250 for it including a set of new burrs + shipping, and that was maybe $25 five years ago.  Last I checked tracking (it's 15 miles from me, 2 hours ago), the new SJ is supposed to be delievered here sometime today (just after midnight here right now)

So I guess at this point I'll be looking for some chat on how to get along with my new grinder, ways to use, clean it.  With the MD-50, I have soley been single dosing...pre weighing one shot, grind.



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

Posted March 11, 2013 link

You can do the same with the SJ.
A flat piston 58 mm tamper on top of 18 grams of beans will work fine for single dosing. However, in my experience, have many shots in the mini hopper (op-tional) resulted in a significantly better degree of consistency. Give the burrs about 15 lbs minimum to really settle in.
BTW, in comparison to a Vario, the MD50 IS messy. YMMV.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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shakin_jake
Senior Member
shakin_jake
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Reddick Fla.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Futurmat Rimini HX One...
Grinder: Rancilio MD 50
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nada
Roaster: Hot Top B
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 3:07am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

IMAWriter Said:

 You can do the same with the SJ.

Posted March 11, 2013 link



~~~not following you...no comprende




IMAWriter Said:


A flat piston 58 mm tamper on top of 18 grams of beans will work fine for single dosing.

Posted March 11, 2013 link


~~~is that what everyone is doing?...I just weighed the beans and dumped them into my hopped, opened the chute while it was grind...never used any weight over the roasted beans



IMAWriter Said:


However, in my experience, have many shots in the mini hopper (op-tional) resulted in a significantly better degree of consistency.

Posted March 11, 2013 link



~~~I don't follow what you're saying here either





IMAWriter Said:


Give the burrs about 15 lbs minimum to really settle in.

Posted March 11, 2013 link



~~~I'm sure I'll yunderstand this when I actually get to look over the grinder...according to the tracking, it's out for delivery <whee!>




IMAWriter Said:


BTW, in comparison to a Vario, the MD50 IS messy. YMMV.

Posted March 11, 2013 link



~~~I don't know what to say, I've been using my MD-50 for 5 years and it (IMO) is not messy.  None of the grinds go anywhere other than the doser, I hold the PF under the spout of the doser, flik the lever, the grinds make it into the basket and not on the counter.  No mess whatsoever




Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 7:36am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around
 

Just out of curiosity, if the MD-50 was so great, why did you buy an SJ?

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,687
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 7:37am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

OK, from the beginning.
Placing a tamper in the THROAT of the SJ, on top of the beans, will keep the "pop corning", (beans flying upward) to a minimum.
However, I found that my shots pulled better when I had the hopper attached, and 1/3 full (at least) with beans.
if your MD50 wasn't messy, more power to you.



Edit for typo

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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shakin_jake
Senior Member
shakin_jake
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Reddick Fla.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Futurmat Rimini HX One...
Grinder: Rancilio MD 50
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nada
Roaster: Hot Top B
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:54am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Just out of curiosity, if the MD-50 was so great, why did you buy an SJ?

Posted March 12, 2013 link





~~~if you go back through my replies to this thread I mentioned 'wanting to see what was over the hill'

That's slang for exploring other options, avenues.  Also, in the back of my mind I've been wanting a nicer looking grinder to perch on my island countertop where I pull shots.  Facetious as it may sound, I like the looks of the Mazzer grinders...they have better lines (IMO) than the Ranchillio MD-50.  We used to live in the lower Fla. Keys (dozen + years, 85' on) and down there where I had my first real exposure to espresso, seemed like most if not all the Cuban sanwich shops used the Ranchillio MD-50, and so that's where this grinder looks most appropriate?

This may be a lateral move in regards to performance as I've heard these two are similar in grind quality, but then that says a lot about the Ranchillio then doesn't it?...in that the Super Jolly gets mounds of praise heaped upon it but that's more a matter of the residential market penetration Mazzers had, as evidenced by what the sellers (like Chris Coffee) offer.  When's the last time you saw a vendor list new Ranchillio MD-50s for sale?




Best,



Jake
Reddick Fla.
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shakin_jake
Senior Member
shakin_jake
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Reddick Fla.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Futurmat Rimini HX One...
Grinder: Rancilio MD 50
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nada
Roaster: Hot Top B
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 1:04am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

IMAWriter Said:

OK, from the beginning.
Placing a tamper in the THROAT of the SJ, on top of the beans, will keep the "pop corning", (beans flying upward) to a minimum.
However, I found that my shots pulled better when I had the hopper attached, and 1/3 full (at least) with beans.
if your MD50 wasn't messy, more power to you.



Edit for typo

Posted March 12, 2013 link



~~~Thanks for clearing that up Rob...it all makes sense now

I wanted to go over one thing you mentioned in another reply, I think you were talking about dialing in the grind where you mentioned to start at 15.  I see that the adjustment collar is numbered 0 through 9.  Are you suggesting I move the collar 1.5 revolutions out to begin?  If so, I guess the screw will have to be removed otherwise it will hit and not move

When I removed the grinder from the shipping container, what looks like position #1, covered by a sticker, the facotry left the collar in that position, front and center, as you face the grinder

I've yet to grind any roasted beans with it at this point...it was delivered late in the afternoon, way after I was coffeed out.  I'll give it a go later this morning but if you have different suggestions for a 1st adjustment setting, I'm all ears


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,474
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 5:43am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

Start your first grind at the sticker that was placed on the grinder at the factory. At that setting, it is about 1.5 to 2 "numbers" from the burrs touching. The screw was placed there to prevent you from going past that point unless you really want to for things such as changing the burrs or a deep cleaning.

I also used the small hopper with at least 1/3 full of beans in it. I used a timer that went into 1/10 second and was very consistent that way, I did not have as much luck with the by the dose method and using a weight in the throat of the grinder.

Until you start actually using the grinder, a lot of your questions will be up in the air, once you start to use it, things will get very clear. Make VERY small adjustments to the collar, a change on a SJ is the smallest movement you can make, really. Unless you are really far off which I doubt as the factory setting is still there, you will be making good shots pretty quickly.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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shakin_jake
Senior Member
shakin_jake
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Reddick Fla.
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Futurmat Rimini HX One...
Grinder: Rancilio MD 50
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nada
Roaster: Hot Top B
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 3:39am
Subject: Re: I'm Kicking my new espresso grinder around ...let's discuss
 

calblacksmith Said:

 Start your first grind at the sticker that was placed on the grinder at the factory. At that setting, it is about 1.5 to 2 "numbers" from the burrs touching.

Posted March 13, 2013 link



~~~yeah, did this, super choke, but only after finding out the bottle I pump water from, was empty=:-(  so I changed the bottle out, kept the grinder set the same, as it came...total choke...I opened it up, a little too far, came back...all was well after another attempt or two




calblacksmith Said:


The screw was placed there to prevent you from going past that point unless you really want to for things such as changing the burrs or a deep cleaning.

Posted March 13, 2013 link




~~~I wonder about opening up the adjustment for cleaning...FWIW, I bought a bottle of cleaning tabs to feed/clean the grinder and the instructions on the bottle say to open the adjutment up before using.  FWIW2, I have never used a coffee grinder (Grinz type) cleaning product before...I've always disassembled the burrs from the burr carriers (removing burr carriers as well), clean the whole thing up that way.  The grinder cleaning product I bought is the full circle brand.  I'll eventually give it a whirl, following their directions, but can't possibly see how going this route (dropping cleaning tabs into the grind chamber) could possibly work better than a manual disassembly/cleaning




calblacksmith Said:


I also used the small hopper with at least 1/3 full of beans in it. I used a timer that went into 1/10 second and was very consistent that way, I did not have as much luck with the by the dose method and using a weight in the throat of the grinder.

Posted March 13, 2013 link




~~~the big hopper came with mine, I have it filled better than half way at the moment.  Thought I'd try grinding with the hopper full for a bit before trying out single dosing with this Super Jolly.  The one aspect I don't care for using this method is when you stop the grinder, it leaves grinds behind in the chamber and in the chute...a bit of a waste, then you have to remember to get rid of these grinds as they will be stale if your next session w/the grinder is any more than 15 minutes (or so) away, now that I did not have to contend with doing single dose grinding with my Ranchilio MD-50, the way I was using it

About the timer on this grinder...it's all new to me, but I can see why Mazzer went to a more sophisticated (electronic) arrangement




calblacksmith Said:


Until you start actually using the grinder, a lot of your questions will be up in the air, once you start to use it, things will get very clear. Make VERY small adjustments to the collar, a change on a SJ is the smallest movement you can make, really. Unless you are really far off which I doubt as the factory setting is still there, you will be making good shots pretty quickly.

Posted March 13, 2013 link




~~~I wont say I have the grinder totally dialed in but I am pulling ristretto shots and that's what I drink.  The burrs on my Ranchilio MD-50 were shot...I'm getting a much more fluffy consistent grind with this new Super Jolly.  The coffee is even tasting better, but it should, for what I have for a grinder now.  I could have gone for new burrs in the old grinder and call it done, but I have to say I'm much more pleased with the look of the Mazzer.  I made the right move

As to the change I have made to the adjustment collar up to this point...it's about 3 + bumps looser than what it came with.  I'm referring to the indentations on the outside of the collar.  Not sure what to call them, jimps perhaps?



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
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