Dapuma Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Phoenix Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013, 8:04pm Subject: Vario v Vario W
It seems that he overwhelming amount of people believe the Vario is going to give the best espresso pulls for a grinder under $500, I am a begginer here so I am curious to the difference between the two models other than $100
Once I purchaes the machine and grinder I do not want to have to upgrade anytime soon so I want to do it right the first time, I have a EC-155 and spice grinder right now
The W model says it has a weight system in it, versus a timer (you hold down a button?)
Is the weight system just something else that can break? Or is it actually useful and worthy of $100 more?
In that price range is there anything else I should consider?
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 175 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013, 9:52pm Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
I purchased the preciso with an esatto unit hooked up underneath. Part of that was the idea the preciso was enough grinder for me and I wanted the automation of having consistent mass dosing. Another part might have been that if one part of the pair failed I would only have to replace it and not expense the entire price.
So, I'd offer that for me the W optioned unit would be the best choice. Reason I say yes to continuous mass measurements is it is one of three consistent variables which influence two others in the draw process. 1) mass, 2) grind, 3) pressure (two parts to this - the pressure you compress the puck when you fill the porta-filter, and, second, the resulting pressure your machine achieves during the draw) and last: extraction time to the amount of drink you're seeking to make: measured by volume, mass, or your preference of the mouses' tail jiggle...
Dapuma Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Phoenix Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:41am Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
I measure by weight when I make desserts (I am in charge of drinks (cocktails / coffee) and baking, the Mrs cooks :)
So it sounds like perhaps the W is the way to go, because that is the best way to get a consistant drink result every time (which is generally what I strive for)
By keeping the hopper full you are saying keeping the unit full of beans to grind versus storing them in a bag?
I am assuming the hopper creates a good seal and is as efficent as keeping it in a zip lock bag? Would that be a correct assumption?
The lid of the hopper might well be airtight...it's not, but even if it was.....there is a bloody big hole in the bottom leading eventually to the outside, it's where the beans go and the ground coffee comes out! I suppose in a few 100 years them may be able to grind the coffee within a sealed chamber and teleport/beam it out.....but not yet.
Dapuma Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2013 Posts: 34 Location: Phoenix Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 6:28pm Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
For $500 for a grinder I figured it steamed the milk as well :) That makes sense
So if keep the hopper full is bad, is the W actually better then? Would it be similar to someone making a mixed drink using a jigger vs a speed pourer and a 3 count?
couldn't i just use my scale and tare it with a bowl (although that may become a pain)
Does it really matter than much on an espresso if the grind is the same and the grams vary by 3 or 4 per pod - for a mixed drink that would be catostrophic everything is in exact ratio's (especially for high end tiki drinks) however some drinks you can be a bit off and it doesnt matter like a mojito
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 8:49pm Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
I have the regular Vario. I sometimes weigh and sometimes I don't. It is not hard to weigh - I just grind into a cup and measure it on the scale. Not a big deal. Not quite as automatic as the W, but still very easy. Most of the time I just grind into the portafilter and eyeball it.
However, from what I understand if you have the W, you *have* to grind into the hopper. There is no way to grind into the portafilter. Not 100% sure - maybe someone with a W can confirm? I don't ever use the hopper on my regular Vario.
Personally, I don't think it is worth the extra money for the W.
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 175 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:01pm Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
I think the point take away for not keeping beans in the hopper is they are exposed to the atmosphere, so, any time they're sitting and not grinding down into your cup they're becoming stale. Some of us will measure before grinding and just accept the process is done as soon as the grinder empties. Some of us come "close" with a trusted spoon or scoop or what-have-you and either process the beans left over as part of the clean up after - or - add the remaining amount of beans needed to make measured mass when grinder goes empty on the way through the last dose of the session. Hobbs choice.
I too think along the lines of reproducible result as I bake/cook/bar tend with an eye toward being able to say just what changes when something does. With the grinder able to accept three 'preset measures' and at least on the esatto software the ability to vary from those set-points due to today's performance/behaviors I can trim the results in the porta filter, group head, and cup with just a bit of ease I didn't feel before.
I have the 1/10 gram and 1/100 gram resolution scales too, and it's just very very convenient to have a dependable reproduce-able tare-able scale built right on without fiddling about with another. Oh, and honestly, I WDT anyway so charges into the porta-filter were never a necessity in the first place.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,475 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:21pm Subject: Re: Vario v Vario W
The Vario W, due to the scale device means you grind into the grounds bin. BTW, a 1/3 of a hopper is more than enough to facilitate great shots, even grinding, and proper management of the scale (W) or timer (regular Vario.) Grinding in to the bin means, you can give the grind a quick stir in the bin before dumping in to your basket. Not quite as much fun as grinding directly into the basket/PF. Both a timer and weigh offer assurance of more consistent shots. The W is more expensive. Both are very well suited for home use, as they are relatively quiet, very neat, retain less than .5gram on average. Both allow grinding by the dose, though I feel the Preciso does this even better. However, with a timer or grind by weight, there is NO NEED to grind by the dose.
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